The thread has taken a turn and now it's much more interesting.

The more intelligent and educated someone is the more difficult it is to persuade him to fight especially in our days when the reasons behind a war are purely financial.

Oh golly, don't start....

Maybe you should rephrase that to something like... 'purely to pursue self-interested goals' - it would be a little less controversial and in my mind a little closer to the truth. I'm also under the belief that wars have never been anything but for self-interest, not just 'in our days'... whether it be for financial or territorial gain, glory or respect, to irradicate perceived threat to mother country, etc etc.. my position also is that if people were truly fighting for religious reasons then they wouldn't be fighting in the first place - my belief is that one of the aforementioned (fundamentally self-interested) motives underlie all wars, even ones fought under a so-called 'religious' banner.

Anyhow, don't mind me

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that Germaniac. I don't believe Adolf Hitler started WW2 for his "own interests" as such - he was nuts and very wicked, but unlike his good friend Benito Mussolini, he was more interested in the glory of his nation and the "Third Reich" than his own glory - that is one thing that makes Hitler an interesting character.

I'm not necessarily saying wars are fought for personal benefit or self-gain (sorry, I should've clarified myself earlier) - for instance I don't believe for one second that George W. invaded Iraq because he had anything to gain from it personally: instead I think that a country (as a whole) only goes to war in an attempt to pursue its own self-beneficial motives.. pretty simple really. And I think Hitler's motives reflect this, as far as I know he was attempting to take over the world - this obviously would be beneficial for Germany as a country. I think he also may've enjoyed his power/control, and his exploits into Europe fed this.....

I deffinitely agree with you Yannis, in every word you said. I can say that most of the wars out there, are there because of money/financial reasons. I can say more, but i think that my post will be very inflamatory and will be deleted as soon as a mod logs on

PS. The war at Iraq was definitely for money reasons

man i feel sorry for the american ppl.. and not in a bad way but in a good way..
the thing is.. americans are getting killed everyday in afghanistan.. and iraq.. but in iraq the gov makes much cash wich i think justifies ( in their eyes) the human losses..
But in afghanistan.. (belive me ive been there) there aint much to grab and run in that country....
So now we have this problem where he first soldiers shipped out were forced to do so.. or didnt know any better..
And bush has like 2 years left.. and he wont pull out NEVER..
So the next president .. will be forced by then to stay and finish this war..
cause its allready at a stage where if the US leaves the war.. the ambessys and american companys, american ppl and so on will have a real hard time in these countrys.. and on top of that there is a big chance that the countrys becoming lawless.. and a nest for terrorists..

so this means that they are at a point of no return.. wich means that their land and ppl will be effected if they pull out.. and by then its a matter of homeland sequrity.. and that will force every american to defend the country.. and i belive there are many willing to do that ( i would do it).. but its sad that Bush got you all so deep in the crap..

From "Dolphin" Diablo to Bush, Hilter, Mussolini, WW2, Iraq... *** is with you guys? :

Tycoon is right. This is starting to get seriously out of the limits of a car forum.
Please back to topic guys.

I agree with you Artist - but remember that the American's are in Iraq now because the Iraqi government wants them there until Iraq's own millitary can cope with the threat - as for Bush himself, well there are definately some strange matters that we don't know much about - like the close business arangements the Bush family has with the [corrupt] Saudi Royal family and the huge construction company, the 'Bin Laden Group' - owned of course by Osama's family - the whole situation is very strange.

The Bush government handled this terrorist situation very badly and have made most of the Muslim world despise them. However, if 'Radical fundamentalist Islam" takes control in Iraq, the lives of millions of ordinary Muslim people will be very oppressed - a Taliban-style leadership would make Saddam look like Santa Claus.

Sorry Yannis, I was making my previous post before you posted your message.