Gearboxes: Manual or Automatic?

[klier]

Originally Posted by coolraoul

100.000€ question: what about Mercedes' MCT? Is it an auto (no torque converter!!) or a DCT (planetary gears)?

The D stands for Dual and the Mercedes doesn't have a dual clutch, so it's an auto
You can just buy me an M3, that would be fine...

[coolraoul]

Originally Posted by klier

The D stands for Dual and the Mercedes doesn't have a dual clutch, so it's an auto
You can just buy me an M3, that would be fine...

It's not "dual" that counts here. The difference is: automated manual (need the whole driver's license) or automatic (no clutch, driveable with the auto license).

Whether it has one or two clutches is irrelevant. Here it seems the Britons consider the automated manual gearboxes (smart as well as Veyron) to be manual gearboxes and not automatics. Therefore you can't drive them with the "auto-only" license.

So the question is: the MCT has a clutch (like a manual) but also a planetary set of gears (like a slushbox)... Does it qualify as a manual or as an automatic?

Stupid law BTW. An automated manual is just like a slushbox IRL: no need to use the clutch.

[dr Dunkel]

In Sweden, I believe these recent developements in technology have outrun the legistator. There is no real consistency in the application of the rules regarding the registration of the cars that have SMG or DSG gearboxes.

[PanterroR]

Originally Posted by coolraoul

It's not "dual" that counts here. The difference is: automated manual (need the whole driver's license) or automatic (no clutch, driveable with the auto license).

That has to be most idiotic rule i've ever heard about DL...

[south]

Originally Posted by Betty Swollocks

You can all you like, but you're wrong. In the UK for example, if you have an auto only license then you are not entitled to drive a DCT or SMG gearbox.

Originally Posted by coolraoul

It's not "dual" that counts here. The difference is: automated manual (need the whole driver's license) or automatic (no clutch, driveable with the auto license).

Whether it has one or two clutches is irrelevant. Here it seems the Britons consider the automated manual gearboxes (smart as well as Veyron) to be manual gearboxes and not automatics. Therefore you can't drive them with the "auto-only" license.

So the question is: the MCT has a clutch (like a manual) but also a planetary set of gears (like a slushbox)... Does it qualify as a manual or as an automatic?

Stupid law BTW. An automated manual is just like a slushbox IRL: no need to use the clutch.

Originally Posted by dr Dunkel

In Sweden, I believe these recent developements in technology have outrun the legistator. There is no real consistency in the application of the rules regarding the registration of the cars that have SMG or DSG gearboxes.

Ok, this issue made me curious, so I looked at it in detail.

In short: Both in UK and in Germany you're entitled to drive double clutch gearboxes with auto only driving licences.

The U.K. Driving Licences Order 2007 defines the following:

Interpretation

2. In this Order—

(b) “vehicle with automatic transmission” means a vehicle in which either—

(i) the driver is not provided with any means whereby he may vary the gear ratio between the engine and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the brakes, or

(ii) he is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which he may operate manually [...]

This means that DCT cars fit in the second category (ii) and are considered to be vehicles with automatic transmissions. So with a "B auto" licence you can also drive an M3 DCT for example.

In Europe, the auto only licence is a full licence with the restriction of Code 78. This code 78 stands for an entry in the driving licence and used to allow driving cars with automated transmissions only.

However, directive 2008/65/EG of 27 June 2008 redefined Code 78 as

"78. Valid only for vehicles without a clutch pedal"

DCT cars don't have a clutch pedal, so everybody with a licence containing the code 78 restriction is entitled to drive DCT/DSG cars.

German government has transformed this directive into the German licencing order early this year. I didn't look for the Swedish or French transformation acts, but suppose they're in effect by now either.

Hope this clarifies these things a bit.

Best regards,
south

[PanterroR]

In Croatia, with your DL, you can drive any car with any transmission you want...

[dr Dunkel]

Originally Posted by south

In Europe, the auto only licence is a full licence with the restriction of Code 78. This code 78 stands for an entry in the driving licence and used to allow driving cars with automated transmissions only.

However, directive 2008/65/EG of 27 June 2008 redefined Code 78 as

"78. Valid only for vehicles without a clutch pedal"

DCT cars don't have a clutch pedal, so everybody with a licence containing the code 78 restriction is entitled to drive DCT/DSG cars.

Thanks South,

This fits very well with my definition of manual vs automatic gearboxes.

The Swedish rules simply points at the directive. The issue I was referring to was the fact that SMG cars are being registered as both as Manuals and as Automatics, seemingly random.

[EnI]

Originally Posted by PanterroR

In Croatia, with your DL, you can drive any car with any transmission you want...

That's because driving lessons are done in cars with manual gearbox exclusively, and so is the DL final test / drive.




Automatic is considered as easier to operate - so if you can drive manual, you are also able to drive an autmoaatic (or DCT etc).

[Giannis]

Sorry for going O.T. but I think that this story about the driving licenses and the gearboxes deserves it's own thread! It's a very interesting topic and it's lost in the 5er thread...

[dr Dunkel]

Originally Posted by EnI

Is DCT an automatic, or not?

So, to sum this sidetrack up a bit; yes, DCT is automatic