[bum-man]

Originally Posted by Sunny

I am sure something similar was uttered when the first 4, 5 and 6 speed gearboxes came about and I am sure something similar will be said when the first 9, 10, 11... speed gearboxes happen.

The "pinnacle of motor sports" (F1) proves this they make due with only 7 ratios. Adding more gears to a transmission only lengthens it and adds more rotational mass and resistance making it less efficient.
It's doubtful that we will ever gearboxes of that calibour. We will more likely see advanced CVTs and electric motors revving to 15k than those kinds of transmissions in passenger cars.

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by bum-man

The "pinnacle of motor sports" (F1) proves this they make due with only 7 ratios. Adding more gears to a transmission only lengthens it and adds more rotational mass and resistance making it less efficient.
It's doubtful that we will ever gearboxes of that calibour. We will more likely see advanced CVTs and electric motors revving to 15k than those kinds of transmissions in passenger cars.

"Pinnacle of motor sports" also used to use 4 or 5 or 6 speed transmissions in the past. As technology progressed they managed to add more cogs in the same space with out much weight penalty and I am sure they will continue to add more in the future.

[bum-man]

Originally Posted by Sunny

"Pinnacle of motor sports" also used to use 4 or 5 or 6 speed transmissions in the past. As technology progressed they managed to add more cogs in the same space with out much weight penalty and I am sure they will continue to add more in the future.

Like I said they would be using it by now if an eighth cog was necessary. Yet they are not using it...

[Osnabrueck]

No, the same things definitely were not uttered, and when F1 was using 5 and 6 speed transmissions, they were ahead of the curve.

8-gears is to automotive what 64-bit was to gaming years ago. It's a gimmick that plays great in a luxury engineering story and creates a nice advertising claim.

In other words - Audi & BMW are keeping up with the jonses not because there's any real merit to the hardware, but because the message (evidently) resonated with consumers, so they don't want to be left perceptively behind Lexus.

And while we're on the subect. For those here who actually believe in the merits of 8-gears - you're also giving Lexus a big dollop of credit. Are you sure you want to do that? (The forum never forgets, you know)

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by bum-man

Like I said they would be using it by now if an eighth cog was necessary. Yet they are not using it...

In the same way a 7 speed transmission wasn't necessary in Mp4/14 and some how Mp4/15 needed one? The instant they figure out how to add an extra cog with out the disadvantages out weighing the advantages they will add one.

There is nothing magical about the 7 speeds, MB spin notwithstanding.

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by Osnabrueck

No, the same things definitely were not uttered, and when F1 was using 5 and 6 speed transmissions, they were ahead of the curve.

8-gears is to automotive what 64-bit was to gaming years ago. It's a gimmick that plays great in a luxury engineering story and creates a nice advertising claim.

In other words - Audi & BMW are keeping up with the jonses not because there's any real merit to the hardware, but because the message (evidently) resonated with consumers, so they don't want to be left perceptively behind Lexus.

And while we're on the subect. For those here who actually believe in the merits of 8-gears - you're also giving Lexus a big dollop of credit. Are you sure you want to do that? (The forum never forgets, you know)

Don't want to derail too much, but 64 bit computing has definite advantages over 32 bit, it is a different matter that most operation systems and software don't make use of this advantage.

[bum-man]

Originally Posted by Sunny

In the same way a 7 speed transmission wasn't necessary in Mp4/14 and some how Mp4/15 needed one? The instant they figure out how to add an extra cog with out the disadvantages out weighing the advantages they will add one.

So you're effectively saying that adding an 8-speed is nothing more than marketing gimmick because the "disadvantages still outweigh the advantages." I hope the next thing you tell me wont be that the 8-speed in a Lexus LS or in the new ZF is more advanced than F1 tech.

In any case the technology for F1 to use extra ratios is there its just that redundancy renders it pointless.

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by bum-man

So you're effectively saying that adding an 8-speed is nothing more than marketing gimmick because the "disadvantages still outweigh the advantages." I hope the next thing you tell me wont be that the 8-speed in a Lexus LS or in the new ZF is more advanced than F1 tech.

In any case the technology for F1 to use extra ratios is there its just that redundancy renders it pointless.

Or may because I am ready to consider the possibility that luxury passenger cars don't suffer from the same weight and space constraints that F1 cars do. duh!

[bum-man]

Originally Posted by Sunny

Or may because I am ready to consider the possibility that luxury passenger cars don't suffer from the same weight and space constraints that F1 cars do. duh!

In case you didn't know F1 cars are already engineered under the weight limit and use ballast across the chassis to bring it back up to standard. So weight is hardly a concern. And didn't they just recently bring the constraints of the engine from a 3.0 V10 to a 2.4 V8? That was a prime time to use a 8 speed 9 speed according to you...

[bmer]

You have to remember F1 is largely restricted considering technology. FIA regulations rule out many features like active suspension to reduce the costs at least to some extent and to keep F1 somewhat fair to the smaller teams. So F1 having 7 gears doesn't really mean it's the optimal number of gears.