[SDNR]

Originally Posted by Tycoon

Please restrain of calling me fanboy.

C'mon Sash, I'm sure Amaury didn't mean it in a serious way

....I didn't

[Tycoon]

I don't mind your thread title, raul and i perfectly know what you're saying. In my 1st reply to your thread i've asked a simple question is it really important?

Then you and Luw said how Beemer fans bitch about MB copied BMW... Plus, i really, really hate when someone calls me a fanboy for no reason and that was the case here! Me asking is it really important and then being called fanboy is what irritates me, nothing else. That could create a war...But it didn't, 'cause i didn't want/ask for it.

I couldn't care less and i don't give a rat's ass who invented it or who's idea is it. For me it's important that it's easy to use and that i love it and that it works perfectly!

Period.

[SDNR]

^ Tyc, I'm sorry I used the term "fanboy" first .....I only ever use it in a fun way though -- please don't take it as an insult.

[Tycoon]

I didn't take any offense, i would have told you if i did. You saw my reply to you for that, right? Was i mad? No. Just pointing out that i really hate it.

[EnI]

Originally Posted by coolraoul

A lot of people said: the 7er has an iDrive. MB bought a 7er, saw how iDrive works and put it, slightly improved, in the W221.

Yes, they did. And they had absolutely no clue what they were talking about. You find a lot of such people eg. on AutoSpies.

[vabboud]

i am going to add a bit of oil on the fire
having an idea and presenting it as a concept is relatively easy because concepts most of the time are not subject to the full enforcement of the laws of economics, ergonomics and sensible marketing driven design
being able to translate a groundbreaking conceptual idea into an economically feasible, ergonomic and mass produced "item" is even harder than the "concept" phase

one could argue that the roots of the "bangle butt" lie not in the Z9 concept, nor in the MB maybach concpet, but rather the BMW 2002 which also had a clamshell boot, or other older cars

similar things can be said of I-drive
MB has been offering knob control of their commands since its early days but the knob was always placed next to the monitor, and as a secondary control next to the buttons, it is the concept of taking this knob and giving it the preponderance and primary status it has, in placing it around the armrest that makes this a groundbreaking concept

and even more, it is the ability to take the siemens/mb/whatever concept and making it into a viable product for daily use in such a critical "tool" as a car, tht makes the idea really pionneering

the "idea" in todays capitalist engineering modalities is no longer of much importance, given enough money and resources one could arguably produce any idea, the real importance lies in being able to mass produce it in an economiclaly feasible matter

[coolraoul]

Tyc, I'm sorry for the fanboy thing. Didn't meant it seriously at all.

[EnI]

Originally Posted by vabboud

the "idea" in todays capitalist engineering modalities is no longer of much importance, given enough money and resources one could arguably produce any idea, the real importance lies in being able to mass produce it in an economiclaly feasible matter

Exactly.




I find it so funny when seeing boys fighting over "Oh, BMW engine produces 10hp more than Audi's engine" etc

And now the explanation about iDrive & BMW.

In the mid 90s BMW decided to refresh the brand's image. To go more luxury, and to go more avant-garde ... yet staying sporty & performance oriented. Going avant-garde was not only the issue of design, but also a technological matter. Therefore especially ex-development chief Reitzle insisted new tech should be implemented ASAP - to deny MB's "Engineered as no other car" & Audi's "Vorsprung durch Technik". Unfortunately the Rover debacle affected E65 R&D and therefore not enough testings were done, and also QC process during the production was too week. E65 was launched not fully prepared for production - yet every further delay would hurt even more. And the aftermath was quirky electronics ... And design not perfectly transfered from clay model to the production car.

Why the brand refreshment was needed? BMW's success derived from the early 80s - when BMW got an image of a "yuppie" brand (especially in US market). The brand was luxury enough yet communicating power, courage & rapid success: perfect car for yuppies. But yuppie times couldn't last forever. BMW wanted to retain the customer base, so they followed their desire to go more luxury ... yet retaining the sporty image. BMW didn't want to be Lexus or MB copy (comfort oriented more conservative luxury). They want to differentiate more. And for 21th century avant-garde approach & technological pioneering was a perfect choice.

New controversial design & revolution in electronics (iDrive) got BMW a more-than-expected publicity, and BMW got an image of one of the most progressive & pioneering brand / company in the automotive world.

The plan was risky, but it worked in the end. And will continue to work in the following years ... even more.

Yet now BMW - in the second generation of avant-garde cars - are correcting the mistakes made with the first generation cars: making the tech more reliable, using better materials, making design less clumsy (better design transformation from clay model to the production cars). And addressing the issue of BMW cars becoming too porky (engineering not design issue!!!).

[bmer]

Shouldn't the "Bangle butt" actually be called "van Hooydonk butt"?

[EnI]

Originally Posted by bmer

Shouldn't the "Bangle butt" actually be called "van Hooydonk butt"?

Actually "someone-else's-butt" ...

Since I'm pretty sure the first sketches of elements like headlight "eyebrows" , grille "mustaches", clamshell boot lid, duck tail, shark antenna, LED angel eyes, rearlight LED strips, flame surfacing etc was done in BMW Advanced Design Studio - where mostly younger designers produce crazy design ideas without almost any engineering limitations. Mind that product designers are very limited by marketing & engineering requirements.