[EnI]

Originally Posted by klier

BMW is shifting towards Audi a bit, Audi towards BMW, and Mercedes is becoming more and more driver orientated too (and the 7er more luxurious, with air suspension and more).......

hmmmm

Meaning: customers want cars with superb traction, active safety, driving dynamics, comfortable ride, luxury features, hi-tech, etc.

The differences are & will be in details: BMW will still have the edge over Audi & MB in driving dynamics, MB over BMW & Audi in Comfort, Audi over BMW & MB in all-roundness. But these differences will be really minor.

So the real differentiation will based on design & built quality / reliability. And ... on the brand image.

[bmer]

Originally Posted by NarutoRamen

I hope they don't start making M3 and M5 into AWD cars.

Well you never know. AWD is an easy way to solve the grip problem (as the next M5 will have something around 600 hp). I've got no problem with AWD as long as it's rear biased.

[NarutoRamen]

Originally Posted by EnI

Meaning: customers want cars with superb traction, active safety, driving dynamics, comfortable ride, luxury features, hi-tech, etc.

The differences are & will be in details: BMW will still have the edge over Audi & MB in driving dynamics, MB over BMW & Audi in Comfort, Audi over BMW & MB in all-roundness. But these differences will be really minor.

So the real differentiation will based on design & built quality / reliability. And ... on the brand image.

That's very true. Pretty soon we're going to be driving BAM!

BmwAudi Mercedes = BAM!

[Imhotep Evil]

Originally Posted by klier

BMW is shifting towards Audi a bit, Audi towards BMW, and Mercedes is becoming more and more driver orientated too (and the 7er more luxurious, with air suspension and more).......

hmmmm

And I find this very disturbing.
Diferentiation is needed not BAMs.

[chonkoa]

Originally Posted by EnI

No intentions of implementing xDrive to other M cars.

But some of my sources says a temptation is huge. And some of them personally hope this will happen sometimes in the future.

But right now marketing department & BMW directors are not fond of this ideam

So, no need to worry.

Btw, more about xDrive in M cars: HERE (BMW developing xDrive for M cars!!!)

Although I see reasons with keeping M cars RWD for the time being, I am yet to understand why there are no xDrive for the 550i and the 7 series.
I hope like you mentioned in an earlier post, this will be addressed with the FXX chassis.

[martinbo]

Interesting - though I'd like to see a bit more detail information and perhaps some diagrams.

My interpretation of this is that DSC is being phased out as an influence in the "differential locking" (xDrive uses the DSC to stop a spinning wheel - thereby providing a limited-slip differential effect) activities and a new electro-mechanical system will assume these duties... DSC will resume the primary role of stability control.

Have I got this correct, Eni and Scott?

The electro-mechanical diffs - are these both on the centre and rear differentials?

Sounds a lot like Honda's SH-AWD System that not only distributes power infinitely between the front and rear axles but also laterally to the left and right side of the car.

It's nice technology, but all this electrical intervention just because a car is understeering? Strewth, what ever happened to the good old throttle lift? I fear that with xDrive and Dynamic xDrive BMW are removing the driver from the vehicle control interface. At least that's the impression I'm getting...

I don't expect Mitsu EVO levels of aggressive cornering adjustability in BMWs equipped with such systems though I may be pleasantly proven wrong!

Oh and by the way, quattro does have one other inherent advantage over xDrive still: it's more compact by virtue of the fact that system is designed from the outset to be AWD and does not have to deal with the restrictions imposed by the rearward mounting of the engine. Such practice necessitates that the xDrive systems are heavier, more mechanically complex and less balanced.

Maybe that's why there's such a push on BMW's side to vociferously extol the virtues of xDrive? Is this another chapter in the onslaught of the mighty Munich marketing machine?

BMW make great cars, and the marketing behind them is just as great.

[EnI]

To chonkoa:

1. Yes, F01/2 platform will be able to carry xDrive system.

2. E87 1er platform is also not capable to carry xDrive due BMW want to stress RWD character of 1er - the only car in a segment with RWD.

3. 550i is a top-end non-M 5er model and therefore a low-volume seller with highest sales in US & Middle East - total global sales of 550i in whole 5er global sales portfolio are marginal so BMW decided not to offer xDrive & save some development money (winter testings, Ring testings, fine tuning etc).


To martinbo:

1. Have no details on Dynamic xDrive (DPC + SCI), yet I'm very interested to see them.

2. Yes, quattro is much more holistic AWD approach, while xDrive is an AWD add-on to RWD. Also Quattro has a lot of history, while xDrive is a new TM, and therefore there is a need to heavily advertise it. BMW want to prove xDrive is just as good as Quattro (if not better) in on-road driving.

3. Very limited understeer & knife-sharp steering is one of the core virtues of BMW RWD vehicles. So BMW try to develop such AWD system to be as similar as possible to RWD vehicles - regarding steering. But with better handling - due better traction.

Mind that xDrive is still a fresh tech. Next generations of cars will be developed more with xDrive in mind so the system will be much better integrated in a car - to be more compatible with other car's characteristics (engine, chassis, tires, gearbox, suspension etc).

BMW invested a lot in xDrive development (new testing center in Arjeplog), hired many new drivetrain engineers, etc. They are taking AWD very seriously. Mind that MB is doing the same - for the first time 4-Matic is developed in-house, not in Magna Styer.

Quattro was one of the Audi's main advantage a while ago, while no it's "just" one of the many AWD systems, and Audi is only one of the many premium car makers offering AWD cars.

Audi are aware of that so they are "forced" to offer something else - just like Lexus they bet on excellent fit & finish. And on classical aesthetic design. But mind such advantages can be diminished very easily - just look at MB case: they improved fit & finish very quickly, and by a great degree.

[martinbo]

Thanks Eni, like I've said before - no AWD solution is perfect. It's about achieving the best solution through compromise to suit the character and core values of the brand.

If the whole idea of these new enhancements to xDrive is to preserve the much-lauded handling characteristics that are intrinsic to the BMW experience then this can only be a good thing.

[Imhotep Evil]

Originally Posted by martinbo

The electro-mechanical diffs - are these both on the centre and rear differentials?

That's what I wanted to know.
The WRC cars till recently had 3 interconected electronically aided
front-center-rear active diferentials.
So, is BMW thinking of something similar ?!

Sounds a lot like Honda's SH-AWD System that not only distributes power infinitely between the front and rear axles but also laterally to the left and right side of the car.

It's nice technology, but all this electrical intervention just because a car is understeering? Strewth, what ever happened to the good old throttle lift?

Well, just trottle lift = slow cornering and dangerous, right ?!
And we don't want that, now do we.

I fear that with xDrive and Dynamic xDrive BMW are removing the driver from the vehicle control interface. At least that's the impression I'm getting...
...
Oh and by the way, quattro does have one other inherent advantage over xDrive still: it's more compact by virtue of the fact that system is designed from the outset to be AWD and does not have to deal with the restrictions imposed by the rearward mounting of the engine. Such practice necessitates that the xDrive systems are heavier, more mechanically complex and less balanced.

Let's just say I want to see it first than draw conclusions.

BMW make great cars, and the marketing behind them is just as great.

Agreed.

I don't expect Mitsu EVO levels of aggressive cornering adjustability in BMWs equipped with such systems though I may be pleasantly proven wrong!

You too Martin ?!
Whenever I hear this EVO/WR_something I sometimes feel sick.
Nothing beats and F1 car in cornering, nothing.
What you need is:
* state of the art aerodynamics + fancy tyre compounds + super-efficient brakes + seamingless sequential clutch + (very) low weight + great rigidity.

Now that nice brake steering system from McMerc would be nice.



Now this is a proper cornering machine, and will smack any non-sense AWD car out there.

[EnI]

IE - you are forgetting one of most important thing for great cornering: low center of gravity.



Regarding 3-diffs in Dynamic xDrive - like I said I unfortunately have no additional info, yet based purely on the press release info I would say there is only one active differential there: on the rear axle. While no active front differential, and no central one.

Maybe I'm wrong though.


It also looks like DPC can be also a stand-alone option - without xDrive. Working like a LSD.