German Car Zone

^ Maybe the X5/6 M???

Is the lag really that bad? Did you experience a lot of dead spots in your driving having to wait for boost to build up?? The X6-M shall be a very interesting car as it will show what's to come from the M department in terms of engines.

It's probably too early to expect M3-like throttle response. Next M5 is my guess...


Best regards, south

But I have this feeling we will see the exact same engine in the new M5

Adv is one of the most hardcore NA diehards I have ever seen....So Hassan, don't start claiming the turbo lag is big in the 3.0 TT, because it isn't

But I doubt we'll see KERS in the X5/6 M.


Best regards, south

No i am not a diehard NA engine driver.

I have had subaru s and evo s also. But that car is different in driving dynamics you throw the car into a corner sideways than full on throttle. Turbo lag or not is not that big issue.

But if you drive a rwd car on the limit of under and oversteer were you have to play with the throttle to balance the car a turbo engine like we have nowadays can t do that. I have tried it with my 135i. The more hp youre turbo has the more worse the throttle balancing is.

Secondly i see lots of bmw with turbo problems at my dealer.

So go drive youre turbo powered bmw on trackdays.

KERS brake energy regeneration system (Kinetic Energy Recovery System)?
I thought that was something for the Sauber F1 team??? Is it going to be available for the F10 M5 too? Would be an Efficient Dynamics masterpiece, and perfectly in line with BMW's green plans....

Edit, there we go;

As Dr Klaus Draeger, member of the BMW AG Board of Management responsible for development, reports:

“The BMW Group can transfer the knowledge gained within the BMW Sauber F1 Team directly into the development of standard production vehicles. This makes Formula One the ideal pre-development platform for innovative drive technologies. The new Formula One regulations give us the opportunity to use innovative hybrid technology under extreme conditions and in so doing to garner crucial expertise for series development as well. BMW customers stand to benefit as a result. The KERS unit designed for the BMW Sauber F1.09 is a highly effective variant of brake energy regeneration technology, and is similar in the way it works to the ActiveHybrid technology developed for BMW standard production vehicles.”

Edit 2;

KERS has nothing to do with turbo lag....

Actually, I think you are a die hard NA fan that does not want to or cannot adapt your driving style for something different than a high reving NA powerplant.

I bought a 135i specifically as a fun street car and part time track car. Even in stock form and with the stock run flat tires, it performed wonderfully on the track. On your average lapping days with average drivers, passing E46 M3's, M-roadsters, M-coupes was not difficult (as long as they were also on street tires). I haven't tracked with anyone with a E90/E92 M3 yet, but I hope to next year as there should be more of them around. I look forward to it to see how the 135i compares with normal non-pro drivers (like myself) at the helm.

There is no detectable "lag" when I drive on the track, as the rpm's never fall that low. The torque curve for the twin turbo 3.0L I6 is relatively flat above 1500rpm. As such power delivery is very linear as rpm's rise.....there is no sudden "boost" of power anywhere above 2000rpm. This is the one defining feature of this engine......its power delivery is very similar to a bigger displacement naturally aspirated engine.....one of the reasons it has won engine of the year more than once already. And I do know what lag can feel like, as I feel it all the time with my wife's A4 with the old 1.8T engine.

You claim you "cannot" make delicate adjustments with the throttle with the 135i when you're at the limit in the middle of the corner. I think you just need a more sensitive right foot to control the throttle....I think there is no lag that is detectable in the rpm range you should be in on a track. Maybe our driving styles are different. Based on my experience, I fully believe you can be fast in any car if you can adjust your driving style to the car's strengths and weaknesses. It sounds like you're the type of driver who just wants to "throw" your car into a corner with a high entry speed and then make adjustments mid corner to stay on the racing line. If you do that regularly, you'll likely spin out in any 911.....naturally aspirated or not....does that mean the 911 is not fun or capable according your definition? Maybe you can consider adjusting your driving style to different cars to maximize your pace......maybe something like a slower entry speed and then concentrate on maximizing your exit speed after the apex.....being SMOOTH is being fast. Next time, try that when your normal way doesn't work as well as you like.

Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions based on our experiences. For me, the 135i with the M sport package is a cheap version of the E46 M3, as personal experience and all the performance specs/laptimes from magazines clearly show. That in itself was good enough for me. I look forward to putting on wider/stickier tires for next season to see how things improve. After that, there are options of adding negative camber or changing the suspension to further improve things as needed. The 135i is massively fun on the streets and on the track......for a fraction of the price of a new E9X M3. The E9X M3 should annihilate the 135i in every performance aspect (just like it annihilates the E46 M3), but it is also close to 4000lbs.....making die hard track fans cringe.

With the instant responding behaviour of an e-motor you can 'mask' the turbo lag. So the combination of a big turbo engine and KERS makes it possible to design an engine layout with almost the throttle response of an current NA ///M engine.

Will the next M5 have such a layout? Probably too early to say, but Scott always speaks about M cars becoming the "pinnacle of efficient dynamics."


Best regards, south