German Car Zone

I think Sunny got the point: a British car has to feel out of time, even outdated and archaic.

Or, if not, it has to be lovely and cute like the Mini.

Or, like a Roadster, it...

Well, honestly, what a British car needs to appear really British, is charisma, soul, personality. It has to be different, it has to be unique, it has to be...impossible not to love.

The Arnage/Brooklands are truly British, the frogs aren't. The Mini is quite British, too. The new Jaguar SF isn't, whereas the XJ and XK still are.

The Rolls... for me, isn't. They made a confusion between charisma, soul, and brashness, size, chrome. The Rolls has a lot of presence, but no charisma. And I saw some of them IRL, I'm not talking about the pics here.

It's big, impressive, but surprisingly...uninspiring. Almost flat, once you're accoutumes to its size and grille.

For me a British car has a soul. It's not perfect technicallywise, but it's part of the charm too.

However, the German technicity is now everywhere and every single carmaker (even Ferrari) is now aiming at becoming German. I only see Aston Martin as an exception, but with Tata and a cooperation with Mercedes-Benz, it won't last long...

It's globalization, but this time the British and Americans have lost ground.

Care to explain this to me?

I agree with much of what you said there Amaury,

But not all British cars have charisma and personality -- in the last quarter of last century, the Brits built some of the worst rubbish ever conceived this side of the Berlin wall.

I think good British cars are like good French and Italian cars, they have passion and culture ....and also sometimes border on being irrational. The Germans are always (well maybe not always) so practical and sensible

Well... A Ferrari used to be 3 elements: A fabulous motor with a crazy noise, a wonderfully balanced chassis, and a marvelous shape on it.
The rest of the car was not as important. As a result it was crap. But nobody cared.

Now, you have... an interior that wants to be finished like a German one (still not the case, but in progress), a whole lot of various electronics and fancy equipments, a clever gearbox (but they forgot that a REAL Ferrari has a REAL alu-grille with a gorgeous level and not a ridiculous small piece of nothing to engage reverse), more electronic aids than in an E-Class...

Oh yes, it also has a motor and a chassis. And a .... shape on it. Not nearly as beautiful and evident as before, but a complex technic-induced aerodynamic shape. In fact, the Form-follow-function (which is... Porsche, not Ferrari, normally).

So Ferrari has been Germanized. For me, at last. It's becoming digital and electronic.

^ The Italians are great -- I love them. They often start off all enthusiastic, go nuts with the engineering ...get obsessed with the smallest details -- things like the appearance of doorhandles and tail lights often seem to be of much more vital importance to them than such mundane things as ergonomics or visibility.

Build quality and reliability has always been the big problem with Italian cars -- unless they are truly loved and cared for they tend to disintegrate relatively quickly -- anybody seen a Fiat Uno in a while -- NO! -- why? -- because they all fell apart years ago!

That is called progress! do u want them to be incident compared to other cars? plus those F1 fast gearboxes,suspension tech and engines are coming straight from their F1 expertise.No one out there transfers F1 to road cars like Ferrari and i think we as car fanatics should give'em huge credit for that.i'm also surprised to see u complaining about Ferrari's F1 transmission aren't u the one who is complaining about MB's old auto in their AMGs?

As for form-follows function,what makes u say it's Porsche exclusive and any other brand applies then it becomes germanized? Ferrari since ever used to design their cars with aerodynamics priority number one in mind

I Totally agree with this Tarek ....you are absolutely right

Yep ...this is true (to a degree). But I think it is fair to say that, in the past, the Germans have taken an even more scientific approach to aerodynamics.

But Ferrari's electronics come from Formula 1.

Ferrari was behind in many ares and by the late 1980s they begun to bring foreigners to catch up and/or surpass the rest in terms of electronics, aerodynamics and materials. Enzo Ferrari was even more radical as he wanted to move the Scuderia to Britain.

Ferrari were the ones who in in F1 in 1989 introduced the semi-automatic paddle shifted gearbox; then in 1990 they have also introduced Traction Control-Launch Control (Ferrari created the first TC-LC system not Williams nor Volvo nor McLaren, contrary to popular beliefs) and active dampers/semi-active suspensions.

It's a clear case of improving-the-breed/technological-progress/relevancy.

I know all this. But for me, Ferrari has lost some of its appeal, it's not that pure any more. I don't like their new in-home design very much, and the fact that chips have so much importance is not really a progress in my eyes.

The F1 gearbox is, for me, far less appealing than the classic Ferrari-grille (that you now see more often in Lamborghinis...). Where is the 'Ting' when you engage the gear, the superb grille and gearlevel?

Today's Ferraris are less focused on the driving experience than before. They want to be driven everyday, to have a luggage space, to have a 11-motors power-seat, an automatized gearbox, a seatbelt warning and a big glovebox...

And before, a Ferrari was not really about Form-following-function. It was more Form-following-passion.

However, that's only my opinion. And I never drove a Ferrari, old or new. Only saw and hear them, and I prefer the older models (F355...what a noise!!)

Well lets keep Lambo out of this coz it's been germanized to the bone

I'm actually so glad that Ferraris now are more usable than before,it means if u are rich enough to get one,u r able to enjoy it everyday not just the weekends.plus they are the only brand out there that keeping their tradition without having to produce SUVs or wagons to keep their company independent..that alone earns them immense respect