LOL - I find it quite amusing

GO Porsche Guy, you tell him! Seems like you have quite the knack for logic and reason there All he was saying, Stuttgarter, is that everyone is image conscious - LA isn't a stand alone case.

What Porsche Guy and rnds have said is spot on though. I personally think it can be reduced down, in its most basic form, to a desire for acceptance. While I won't claim to know much more than this about it, Adler's psychological theory posits sometime like that man is governed by a desire for acceptance and a fear of rejection, and I think in many cases it's true. So, if people perceive that buying an expensive car will gain them acceptance (ie, friends, respect, etc), then they will. Now I think it's a load of tosh that any (decent) friends come from high social standing, but this belief or perception is a result of years and years of 'indoctrination' if you would - society generally dictates that people with more money will be well-liked, and people buy this.

I think it's also got a lot to do with man's desire for happiness, and, more importantly, contentment or satisfaction. I'm only young but I've lost count of how many people have told me they only want enough money to live comfortably. Or, more specifically, 'yeah, na, i don't want to be rich, i just want to be secure/happy/satisfied/comfortable/ya mum'. Scratch that last one, but the fact is that 99% of people never reach this position. Because when they're 20, they think that 'being comfortable' is say, x thousand a year. And then when they reach x thousand, they realise it's not enough, or whatever, and by the time they're thirty, it's 2x, or whatever, and so on.

Basically, happiness and contentment can never come through material goods or 'financial security' and anyone who believes it does is seriously misguided.


I'll delete it if they request, but a perfect example of 'never satisfied' is a conversation between a couple of forum members in a thread a few days ago which really struck me......

A: Thats crazy Its hard to imagine how it feels to be filthy rich. I wish I was in your/their shoes.

B: Thier shoes are pretty good.... Live really, really comfortble. Thats not me though, not even close....

A: dont be modest [b], [where I'm from] we wouldnt exactly call you a poor man. If you lived [here] with a CL55 and that fine house of yours you would be called a millionare.

B: [Where you are] yes.... [Here,] nope. Im not in bad shape, but with making money comes alot more responsibilty and expenses too. Millionaire i wish!


The fact is that for all intents and purposes 'B' would be considered wealthy, or at least well-to-do, by the majority of the world's population. But you see, once you reach a point (probably one where you yourself has seen as 'wealthy' in the past) - it doesn't seem wealthy to you, because, as B rightly pointed out, 'with making money comes alot more responsibility and expenses too'. Essentially, people have this ideal of 'wealth' as this place in where when you reach it, life will be a breeze. But this is simply a falsity and certainly not the nature of wealth. When you have it, you need to maintain it and you need to build it (in general terms, of course).


That's what I think anyway.

Exactly my thoughts.... thought about being on the money... go Porsche Guy!

What all this is about is fetish commoditism. Enzo Ferrari was pissed off cause people bought his cars cause they had a Ferrari badge and not because of the performance and handling. Also heard a rumor a that said that over 80% of the BMW owners had bought the cars first and foremost beacuse of the BMW badge. If this is true, than MB, Lambo, Aston, Maserati, RR, Bentley, Range Rover, Porsche and Co. are also on this league.
I belive it was Karl Marx who called this fetish commoditism.
So what, who gives a damn ?!
This fetish commoditism stuff creates jobs, and tax money for goverments. And that's THE thing that counts for me. Besides, a(n ///M) BMW and/or Co. are a welcome to my eyes next to all those boring ordinary people cars.

Welcome to the world of supply and demand. People buy stuff for different reasons but it's what fuels the economy. Enzo Ferrari may have been angry that people bought his cars for the wrong reason but I'm doubting that he didn't take the money. You know why so many old Ferraris had V12 engines? Because Enzo loved the sound of V12, nothing more. There was no performance reasoning behind it which makes Enzo kind of a hypocrite if you ask me. Sorry, I don't believe your stat about how 80% of all BMW, MB, Lambo, Aston, Maserati, RR, Bentley, Range Rover, Porsche and Co buyers never test drive their cars before buying them. Did you know that 92.5198423% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

like that one

Well actually there was, in F1 back in the 60s the less powerfull but ligher V8 were the best, that is why perhaps Ferrari used them, albeit they were flat-plane V8s, while outside of F1 the V12 had an advantage over V8 cause of the vibration and power output thingy. But Ferrari wasn't the only one with V12s, there was also Lamborghini (Miurna) and Jaguar (E type series, III I belive).
Anyway back on topic, when it comes to premium cars, the Badge is one of the top 3 most important things.
And this gives people jobs, goverment tax money and something to look at in the sea of blando-boring cars.

When I was speaking of V12s, I was referring to production cars. My bad, I should have been clearer. One thing though, the number of cylinders does not translate to more HP. And yes, others were using V12s. I'm not saying they were bad, it's just an interesting fact about the history of Ferrari V12s and that Ferrari's road cars were not purely performance based like Enzo would have liked you to believe.

I think badge is important depending upon what you're in the market for. If I have 35k and need performance, I'm not going to buy some bare 330i for the BMW badge, I'm going to buy a STi or Evo, then again most people don't put performance first. They want image. The whole giving people jobs and government taxes is true, but you can say that about anything that has monetary value, not just premium cars.

Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not, but remember that what you have now was once among the things you only hoped for.

lol...theres my philosophy for the day. I see no problem having nice things etc...as long as its WELL WITHIN your means.

And although it's not easy if you haven't been there, and it sounds like a truism, don't forget that merely by having a computer and maybe a car we're all better off than many people around the world. I doubt any of us are actually starving to death here.

Anyhow, yeah, similar to what Mr. Merc said, don't worry about what others have, or the next newest bestest thing. The thing about being car enthusiasts is that you're always aware of the next car, a better car, this and that. It makes you (and me) want it, because it is better, right? But that's what breeds dissatisfaction and the desire to have more or newer things, as well as seeing what other people have.

I suppose the thread was about people buying things to keep up with others, or simply for the badge or prestige, though, and not so much rational consumerism (if there is such thing) as such. I wouldn't be surprised if people bought expensive things for the idea of it, and not so much for the actual use or benefits it offers over other products. I guess it makes us feel better when we are constantly buying things, thus things change and we're "doing better", right?

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When Imhotep said that people bought BMWs first and foremost for the badge, I think he didn't mean to say that they didn't test drive them, but more that it was the most important consideration. Whether or not the actual figure was correct or not, I would believe that many people do such a thing.