German Car Zone

Lol, was that a shot at Cadillac/Bob Lutz and their "challenge"?

Anyway back to topic, let me put it this way, why stop at 4 laps, why not 10 or 20 or even be able to do the 24hr Nurburgring race. I am sure they could build all the cars to be able to do it. But in the end you are paying a bunch of money for things you will never need in the way the car is typically used.

In my opinion, there are 3 main aspects to track endurance:

1) brakes
2) tires
3) engine cooling capacity

With continued track duty, one or more of these things could overheat and you lose performance.

Although all M cars perform very well on a track according to magazine tests where they time a hot lap, what I hear commonly from M owners is that the single floating piston design often does not hold up to constant track abuse over a typical track day (when one does multiple lapping sessions througout the day). Sure, the single piston design reduces unsprung weight, but a lot of M owners I know who track their cars upgrade to a big brake kit (BBK), with much bigger calipers, more pistons, and higher pad surface area. With a BBK, heat dissapation is much better.

I have never owned a M car myself, but I do know that the standard AMG brakes hold up VERY well on typical lapping days. AMG routinely uses large disc rotors and large 4-6 piston calipers which stand up quite well to repeated prolonged lapping sessions. The 6 piston large caliper setup on the 135i also is very robust during the same type of repeated prolonged lapping sessions too. It's funny that the 135i was the only car in BMW's lineup which offerred such big brakes as standard equipment.

So personally, I've been spoiled. I have no desire or need to upgrade the brake components (other than brake fluids and brake pads) as I find both of my cars have relatively big brake components already that are quite good for you average lapping day at a track.

With regards to tires, the biggest factor that affects tire life at the track is how a driver drives his car on a track. Some drivers are constantly hard on their tires, while more smooth drivers can make their tires last longer. Obviously, how fast the car is driven has a dramatic impact too. From a car point of view, the heavier cars usually wear their tires out faster.

With regards to engine cooling, supercharged or turbocharged engines can sometimes run into problems of heat soak or overheating if there is not sufficient engine cooling capacity during prolonged track duty. Generally speaking, naturally aspirated engines have less of a problem with potential overheating issues.

So running multiple laps at the ring does not really tell us about a car's peak performance ability. Rather, it could tell us more about the car's capacity for running at speed for a more prolonged period of time, which is yet another aspect to gauge a car by.

I think Mercedes still do test runs in stints of 5 or 10-laps. But it does take a helluva lot out of the car's tyres, brakes, and the cooling system. Problem with most cars (because of the tyres, brakes, and cooling system) is that they won't last 4 hard-driven laps around the 'Ring.

I remember a car magazine interviewed Klaus Ludwig regarding the CLK 63 Black Series (or the CLK DTM) and he mentioned about the difficulty of doing 10 consecutive laps of the 'Ring in the CLK in fast times as part of the endurance testing. He said the brakes were fading and the tyres were getting a bit stressed.

Most cars that are advertised as performance cars and for which that sort of elements are used in the marketing will hold up well. But, only when driven by a really good driver who knows the car and it's limitations. That case is not at all the same as when a really good driver is trying to find said limits.

As laps around the ring have become an important marketing factor to some manufacturers (remember, this is not the case for C63 AMG, BMW M3 and Audi RS4), I think it is a good thing to put the claims to test. If the merchandise is advertised as capable of doing this or that, these claims should be tested. Now it seems like there are those who think that some products are more genuine than others and in that context; why not put the cars to a test of 1+ set of laps?

"Take a look at the new Bratwürst GT900, laps* the ring in 7:45,91**"

*)Please be advised that the tyres, brake discs, pads and oil will have to be replaced after each lap.

**)Testing performed on a closed event, we promise that the car used could pass for being in standard condition.

Is the article in the mag different from what was posted on their site?

"Porsche loves the low key approach to Nordschleife time-attacks, and last week's session to see what the new 997 GT3 RS could manage was no exception.

Armed with a stopwatch, a crash hat, an RS and a sizeable pair of testicles, an unnamed Porsche test driver clocked a 7min33sec lap - that's seven seconds faster than the cooking GT3. He did this in some light traffic, and pulling data from earlier laps showed that the theoretical 'best lap' would have been 7m30s.

That compares to the Nissan GT-R’s 7m27.56s, while quicker lap records lie with the Gumpert Apollo (7m11.57s) and Radical SR8LM (6m48s), the latter a time that we help set a couple of months ago. Watch the video here.

Not that Porsche cares too much about the relative speed of the competition, or that the Corvette ZR1 and Nissan GT-R have all gone faster. I tried to coax them into making a few catty comments about the Americans and the Japanese, but it seems they've had enough of that banter.

There's one question I'd like answered though - what's the longevity of these road cars at such insane speeds. I mean, how many laps can a 1740kg GTR do sub-7m30s before the brakes melt and the tyres go pop? Likewise the 'Vette. I reckon we should push for a 4-lap challenge from now on. Were it possible, I reckon the Porsche might just get the job done."

Porsche GT3 RS laps the Ring | Car News | Supercars | evo


That's written by Chris Harris. A well known (and self-admitted) Porsche fan. It sounds like he's maybe a bit miffed that the GT-R's best time is still faster than what Porsche publishes for its latest, most track-focused car, and has to rely on endurance to uphold his beloved marque's honor. Interesting to see how Porsche is downplaying the importance of 'Ring lap times, once Sport Auto managed 7:38 after only 3 timed flying laps in the GT-R.

On the one hand, Porsche's products do seem to be very durable for extended track usage (Gen1 PCCB problems not withstanding). But it doesn't take that much to have a GT-R or M3 stand up to extended lapping. Nor have I seen too many Porsche owners running their bone stock street cars at 10/10ths pace on the 'Ring for laps on end; on public days this just isn't possible, with traffic and the reduced speed on Doettinger Hoehe. Unless you're willing to don helmet and fire-retardant race suit, it just isn't practical. So that's not exactly a realistic expectation either. A single lap of the 'Ring is about as long as 3-5 laps at most other tracks anyway.

I just took the question raised and tried it on the community - the rest of the "article" could only serve as a distraction to such a discussion.

Regarding EVO: notice how Chris Harris from the now-deceased Driver's Republic made it into EVO whilst erstwhile EVO journalists Bovingdon and Meaden have disappeared...

Chris Harris: damn I love that guy's work!

OT: I would love to see Bovingdon and Meaden back, I loved Bovingdon's article on the F430 VS F40, and Meaden's pikes peak adventure.