German Car Zone

You are talking about general perception, i am talking about facts.

what about direct injection my dear shonguiz
the current BMW V12 was one of the first if not the first mainstream direct injection engines

Absolutely my dear vabboud.

One place where i know the V12´s in the 7er loose is output and torque..
Fuel consumption is not important..
And seriously we really do not need facts and numbers..common sence will do here..
They have V12 in 1 car only the 7er.. vs Maybach, SL,Cl and S
And we all know that the S alone outsells the 7er--
So yeah its not as easy for MB to ditch it

And remember..im not saying the BMW V12´s suck they are probably the better ones on the market..

But thats not the point of the thread..the point is.. what is the future of MB V12´s and my answer is in AMG form DEAD.. and in normal form far from..

And the easy way is to let time tell

All you've provided is fluff, that you think BMW is the number 1 manufacturer of V12's with no proof.

And despite the direct injection it still gets poor gas mileage / hp per litre.

Well I'd have to see the numbers for that because there is no way BMW sells more V12 than Mercedes does now, IMO. May have been then, but with all the V12 models Mercedes sells, both plain and AMG I seriously doubt BMW sells more V12. The only way that could be is including Rolls-Royce I'd say.

No I'm saying Mercedes' V12s are better because you get a huge upgrade from S550 to S600. Over a 100 more hp and a big torque jump. The previous generation 7-Series really tanked on the V12. From 740iL to V12 750iL was hardly discernible from behind the wheel. Yes I drove them.

What is the point of valvetronic when it doesn't translate into a useful hp gain for the outlay of the V12? The MB V12 is a old as dirt and simple as can be, but it gets the job done and smites any other V12 in the luxury car arena. No one is saying BMW has failed, only that they haven't mastered the V12 like they have the I6 or even V8. One of the "characteristics" of having a V12 is power, there is no way to dance around that. Power is what the MB V12 has in spades over the BMW V12.


M

It amazes me how we can jump to innovations for BMW when the finished product doesn't measure up for what buyers purchase them for, yet when Innovation and Mercedes-Benz are mentioned in the same sentence it is disregarded. Gotta love that.



M

Some Nr´s

BMW N73

6.0 L (5972 cc/364 in³) 327 kW (445 hp) @ 6000 600 N·m (442 ft·lbf) @ 3950

Mercedes-Benz M275

5.5 L 500 hp (373 kW) at 5000 rpm with 590 ft.lbf (800 Nm)

Those numbers are off Artist.

For m275
510 hp @ 5,000 rpm
612 lb-ft @ 1,800 - 3,500 rpm <-- torque peaks very closely to where it does in the new 735i

Conerning numbers, i said they were number 1 and asked for present numbers. And yes Direct injection & Valvetronic are a big achievement despite the Merc V12 having better numbers, cause you seem to forget that one is an NA engine and the other is not.