German Car Zone

BMW not having a V12 tradition, we learn new things every day.

Who said that? Again, they don't have a V12 tradition like Mercedes-Benz.

M

In what way Mercedes Benz have a bigger V12 tradition ?

For one they sell a whole lot more of them. Secondly Mercedes' V12s are a serious upgrade over their V8s. BMW's V12s simply haven't been worth the money over their I6 and V8s. From the old 740iL, to the outgoing 745iL and 750iL. In recent times, BMW's V12s haven't mattered much at all, while Mercedes are sought after. Outside of the V12 in the F1 there really isn't much fanfare for a BMW V12 compared to a Mercedes V12. IMO part of what makes a tradition a tradition is adherence and acknowledgment to it. BMW simply doesn't have that with their V12s.


M

Do you have any numbers to compare sales ? cause BMW has been for a long period of time Number 1 V12 constructor. And how the helll can you say the BMW V12 isn't that good ? Based on what technical facts do you say that ? And what's this F1 thing ? Are you referring to Lemans engine ?

No numbers in front of me now, but this is well known fact. Any U.S. BMW dealer will tell you that can't move a V12. There is no way BMW builds more V12s than Mercedes. BMW has 1 car with a V12, a 7-Series. Mercedes has the SL, CL, S, and a few Maybachs. The S600 regularly outsells the 760iL in the U.S. by itself. BMW came out with a V12 for 1988, MB for 1992, a headstart, but not a "long time" as you put it. Again, I didn't say that BMW's V12 isn't any good, what I said was that it wasn't worth the upgrade over the V12, especially with the last generation 7-Series. From 740iL to 750iL was less than a 100hp upgrade, but way more money. Buyers passed. The SWB 760i flopped in the U.S. also and was pulled from the market. Now I'm talking about the V12 in the McLaren F1, which was one of the world's best engines. That is where BMW's V12 magic is IMO, not 760Li vs S600.

M

he meant the mclaren F1 V12 engine, which is undoubtly the best v12 ever constructed, and a strong contender for best engine ever constructed

but i have to say that the argumentation advanced by the mercedes fanbase is emotive at best. such a discussion requires hard facts, marketing research etc.....

They actually sell, and are far more potent. An S600 name also has way more cachet than the 760. It's funny how many of you get so flustered about this.

MB has done a good job with their V12s, that is why an S600 is perceived as the pinnacle of luxury automobiles.

I didn't say that you said the V12 isn't good but all what you are saying is that Merc V12 are better cause there more fuss about them and used in more variants. And concerning the number 1 constructor i maintain it, they were number 1 even after merc introduced its own V12, unfortunately i have lost numbers and sources but i will search for it. Now concerning the upgrade, it's not cause they didn't offer a sensible power upgrade that it's not worthy, V12 in big cars are wanted because of their caracter not because of raw numbers and the V12 in 760 introduced platinum worth innovations like valvetronic. BMW never fail with its engines.