I think its one of those things that you know it when you see it. If you have to proclaim that you have it, then you probably don't.

IMO it comes from a very storied history, innovation, racing, asking for ridiculous prices for years and years without fail no matter the economic climate, world records, and just an overall contribution to the automobile itself. Truthfully it also stems from a lot of urban legends/myths too things that people have been led to believe for years and years, even if it isn't true. It is the ability of the company in question to say "we were there" when this happened in the industry. It is many things.

It can't be bought as in the case of Lexus. It is earned. It is something that people who don't even like Mercedes-Benz, Rolls-Royce, Porsche or Ferrari still acknowledge that they have it. Its the highest form of respect.

Bruce? He is the most open minded Lexus fan I've ever run across and he knows it isn't anything personal.


All luxury brands carry a level of prestige, but it varies greatly. You can't have prestige if you're a one-market nameplate like Acura.


M

May i just say it, simple as this... (since we're talking MB vs. Lexus prestige wise stuff): MB is a prestige, the Lexus (regardless of being able to compete with MB), ain't prestige car/brand...IMO of course.

Rob, you know very well that it takes much more to be declared as a prestige brand than what's Toyota/Lexus doing... Right?

^ I understand everything you have said ....but I still have some reservations about it.

See, I don't think prestige is quite as deep and profound as we would assume. I think, for the most part, perceptions of prestige are heavily reliant on marketing and an acute awareness of global-cultural status-symbols.

Obviously some things are prestigious because of their rarity, craftsmanship, and high cost -- but what makes Mercedes-Benz more prestigious than Lexus in real tangible terms -- is it purely the cost? (I guess cost is tangible )

Extremely well said!

This is exactly what I think when talking about prestige. Lexus is a great brand, they've had it so easy with Toyota and the big bucks behind them plus the in-depth examination and studying of their rivals before entering the luxury market.

Also, Karl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler had a vision when they produced their motor cars. They wanted to create transportation not only on land, but for the seas and the air. Lexus to me is a passionate-less brand. They entered the luxury market for the sole reason of making money. Granted, these days it's all about making money but when you look back to the days where Benz and Daimler existed, passion was the driving force, not money (from what I've read).

^ I have great sympathy for you opinion Chris ......but the long history of Mercedes is still only a perception when it comes to the final product.

Toyota is an outstanding manufacturer too ...the quality of its products is well recognized ....even if the materials are generally not as pleasant or durable as in a Mercedes -- but this is where Lexus comes in.

Lexus is not entirely without culture. Sure, it is a relatively new brandname ...but it has the long (and respected) history of Toyota behind it (founded in 1937).

I agree, it is difficult to get excited about the history of Toyota ....and maybe that is the big point (you already suggested it earlier) ....it is about passion.

Having said all this, I don't think it is all about history. The auto industry is much like any other. Brands don't have to be many decades old to have prestige -- is Dolce & Gabanna any less prestigious than Prada because it is 72 years younger? -- I don't think so.

It all comes back to marketing. Mercedes use their long history as part of their marketing ....they know that Lexus cannot match them on this. It is an effective point of difference that gives a sense of credibility and substance -- but it is still an illusion. Mercedes is not the same company it was 20 years ago ...let alone a century ago.

Great parallel with the fashion industry Rob. And I agree with your point. But the reason why I don't think lexus has prestige is because they draw way too much 'inspiration' from the Germans and share far too much with Toyota.

Prestige to me is a perception, real or not, of superiority technically, emotively, stylistically, or on another basis. When a brand is able to invoke a general acknowledgment of superiority on some basis, and again I stress this does not have to be objectively true and real, it has achieved a level of prestige.

While Lexus may lay claim to being the technical equivalent of the Germans, they have not grasped the stylistic and emotive elements as well.

On the other hand, in the past, Rolls Royce could not hold a candle to the Germans on a technical basis, however it derived its prestige from a style and emotional experience (sense of occasions?) the Germans could not match.

Oh my friend Rob thinks he knows everything....lol! (Kidding)


M

^ Oh man ....you make me embarrassed.

I certainly do not think I know everything .......I apologize if I come across like that.

Rob you know me better than that! I'm kidding with you....! Of course I still feel like I should be taking notes when you post, but that is a good thing of course! I knew this and the Maybach vs Rolls thread would draw you in.

M

Thank you Marcus, I appreciate that. We don't always agree on Lexus-related topics, but we seem to have quite the similar views and opinions on most everything else in the automotive world. I do respect that you respect my tastes and opinions.