German Car Zone

Vast experience??? In what???

I don't consider Pagani a real carmaker. And if you want to know, I don't consider McLaren to be a real carmaker either.

Vast experience through out the car industry. Not only does Horacio Pagani's company (Modena Design) produce carbon fibre for other manufacturers, but MD has both design and engineering departments which manufacturers through out Italy rely on.

Afterall, it was Horacio Pagani himself who penned the 25th anniversary Lamborghini Countach.

Frankly, there is a misconception regarding the size of Pagani's operations. Don't be fooled by the lack of models - his operation is far bigger than what it appears to be.

Fair enough.

How is that we never see the mistakes in our brand?

I don't consider any brand 'my brand', but a personal preference would be VAG cars. I like all German cars in general though.

I do see problems in VAG cars. They are usually a little behind MB and BMW in terms of the very latest in technology, they do not receive as much recognition as the mainstream giants and are usually 'alternatives' (think Audi). Also, they don't drive as well as RWD cars, and the main headache is its AWD platform, which divides opinion. Some like it, some don't and some see it as a liability. For this, I'd love to see a RWD car in VAG's lineup in the future but it's a dream.

People don't see mistakes in their brand because they don't want to think of it. Or rather, the positives simply overthrow the negatives for them.

How can we change our perception of our view of other brands?

Try the cars, and read up on their engineering. And not just bash other brands without knowing how they became so hotly revered.

What drives us to stay loyal when other cars are better?

Some things that a brand does that other carmakers will never do.

How is that we never see the mistakes in our brand?
I've noticed a few times in this forum when there're comparisontests between the big German three. Eventually one car/brand wins the test.
Some people won't agree with the result and will find reasons for not choosing the 'winners' car.

It's funny when the winners' car lacked behind with a few points behind their favorite brand in a certain category, they find that a reason for not choosing other brands aside of their favorite. Whereas in other categories their favorite brand lacked behind with significant amount points and it seems that they don't even notice it.
Love or fanboyism makes you blind and eventually you'll only want to see what you want to see. Funny but yet sad at the same time.

Enough about others, how about myself?
I have to admit I have a soft spot for Mercedes but I love other brands as well like BMW, Audi, Volvo etc. I personally don't have a fanboy attitude, I stay very objective. Concur with mistakes by any brand if backed up by constructive criticism.



How can we change our perception of our view of other brands?
Attitude change, be open for anything and be objective.
Take some testdrives with other brandcars in the hope to realize that your favorite brand is not the only brand that could produce decent cars.

For example: You're a BMW fan at first but soon realized that BMW cars are a bit too sporty for your need and realized that maybe Audi or Volvo are a better choice. Be open and don't fool yourself buying a BMW if it doesn't suit your need, won't make you any happier.
Disclaimer: What was stated above was just an example not a neccesarily a fact. It was only used to illustrate my point.



What drives us to stay loyal when other cars are better?
Exterior/interior design and emotion could make the whole difference, not only just the car being better. Aside of that also service and support the brand provides is an important factor.

For example: Porsche is in most peoples' point of view the better sportscar, it wins alot comparisontests. You could say that it is the better sportscar than a Aston Martin or a Ferrari. But yet it doesn't drive people instantly away from their competitors. Because of emotion and design they prefer.
Same as Alfa Romeo, Volvo and Lexus against Audi, BMW and Mercedes.
Disclaimer: What was stated above was just an example not a neccesarily a fact. It was only used to illustrate my point.



How can we kill the “fan boy” with in us and realize the potential of other brands?
Be open and stay objective. Behave professional instead of plain childish.
Every car has it pros and cons.

For example: BMW has a very good handeling and is sporty. A Lexus is less sporty and has less good handeling. Don't go off by saying that the Lexus sucks and it's not worthy to compete against BMW.
NO, realize that Lexus is less capacable in the corners than the BMW but is a more comfortable car for long distance driving. Appreciate other aspects/qualities of a car rather being being single minded.
Disclaimer: What was stated above was just an example not a neccesarily a fact. It was only used to illustrate my point.

Also take testdrives in other carbrands and realize the differences and other qualities. Try to appreciate them as there're alot of buyers with different needs in the market and realize that it's all good that we have them.
You know sometimes it's better that we all have different taste and preferences. Imagine a world where we all drive the same cars, colors etc. Now that would be very boring. Look at bright side and respect each other's opinions and choices.

You suck..

Is that so?

^ohh yes very much.. by the way check out that new white zonda..in the pagani thread.. you will love it

It's no secret that I am a big Hyundai fan ()...

Ok seriously, I am a passionate Mercedes-Benz supporter. I've always been captivated and fascinated by the many achievements and rich history of this brand. It's simply amazing.

I do acknowledge problems and some of the problems I have with Mercedes cars and I always try to be as objective as possible. A lot of time I might sound biased towards this brand, but I like to think of it as "clearing up common misconceptions".

I generally have a respect and admiration for all car brands whether they are from North America, Europe, Asia or God knows where else (well maybe not the Chinese cars! ). Even if you see me saying something negative about a brand, I always give credit where credit is due. I am no fan of Lexus cars for example. I have my reasons, yet there's no denying that they've shaken up the industry and IMHO actually made the Germans step up their game - which is great for us.

I don't consider myself a fanboy as fanboys have no respect for other brands and always stick to their brand no matter what. IMO, a real car enthusiast shows respect and admiration for all brands - no matter where they are from (well except Chinese cars! ).

Hmmm, interesting argument klier ...but if we apply this argument to all carmakers, where does this leave Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Audi, Maybach, Lexus, Bugatti, or Mini?

Pagani does create a unique vehicle I think -- a much more Italian supercar (in spirit) than the Lamborghini Murcielago in my opinion.

The Murcielago is a fantastic car, don't get me wrong, but it's still within the bounds of rationality.

The Pagani Zonda is wonderful insanity!

I don't have a favourite brand. There are certain models I have a particular love for ....but I try to judge each car on its own merits.