Hey guys,

Just thought it was worthwhile to post a quick report on a trip to the VW dealer today.

Well, actually, was taking the Civic for a routine checkup, and then had nothing to do afterwards. Had a look at the new Civic - but I wasn't entirely impressed. The A pillars are huge and sloping, and it feels like you're sitting really far back inside the car. I don't need to see the front to park - if it's your own car, you learn soon enough - but it just feels silly. Some plastics are cheapish, but it is a cheapish car. Overall, much nicer than my 2000 Civic though, in terms of plastics and general solidity. However, I can see why they can afford to make them cheaply and sell them cheaply. Didn't even go on a test drive - I'd rather get a Mazda 3 or something if I was in the market.

On to the main course. My dad and I then went to the VW dealer, Barloworld Botany, for those in Sydney. The salesman was quite polite, respectful and also helpful and knowledgeable - I was pleasantly surprised. Salespeople can be a mixed bag.

We've been interested in a 2.0TDI Jetta or Passat for a while now, having also sampled the Honda Accord Euro Luxury as an alternative. There's this colour called "wheat beige" that my dad really likes. I was skeptical - on the internet, it can either look too gold, or like tan, or some such. In the metal, it's quite subtle, which is good. It's gold in the sun and like darkish grey in the shade. It's not a common colour - of perhaps 5 Jettas and 10 Passats on the forecourt, none were that colour. We had to walk around to the service department to see a customer's car that was that colour.

The guy 'demonstrated' his idea that German cars use thicker, tougher metal by banging his fist on the door of a customer's Jetta waiting to be delivered. It was pretty funny, even though the customer was nowhere around. He also opened the door of another Jetta, and climbed onto it - to demonstrate that it wouldn't sag or creak; and also jumped into the boot of the Passat to show that the spare tyre covering was strong enough. Quite active for a salesperson!

Anyhow, we took a drive in a Golf 2.0TDI, since there was no diesel Jetta available. Pretty composed, nothing so exciting, but not bad. I didn't drive too long since I've driven it before. There's still a little turbo lag just off the line, but after that it's a powerful surge. The diesel engine note is pretty well hidden unless you're at idle, the windows are open, or you're outside. The brakes were a little sensitive, as new, but you'd get used to that.

Then, had a drive of the Passat. It was a good drive - quite a different experience. Strangely enough, the Passat 2.0TDI is 15kg lighter than the Jetta 2.0TDI, according to the brochure. The salesman says that it's not an error, but I still aren't completely convinced. (anyone got any explanations?) Well, it certainly didn't feel any more sluggish than the Golf. I asked about the 125kW 2.0TDI available in Europe, but he said that it'd be a year off at best. Too bad - it would have been ideal, IMO. Anyhow, again with a little hesitation off the mark, it was still effortless. It's more composed on the road, although with our standard 17" wheels and tyres, there was also more tyre rumble. The ride was firmish, and I can see why testers have taken note, especially when the optional sports suspension with 18" wheels is specified, but I reckon the 17's are fine. The brakes were more progressive, too. The external sound insulation was better than the Golf's.

He was also nice enough to show us some of the safety features. There was the electronic parking brake's emergency stop feature - from 50-0km/h in perhaps 10 metres. Then, a swerve at 50km/h, and a swerve-and-brake at the same speed. Pretty violent - probably more so than I've ever had to do so far. The car remained composed enough to stay in control. I'm firmly of the opinion that our 2000 Civic would have lost it, though that's not saying too much - it's a cheapish car. Also did a bit of urban cornering at unusual speeds - and the ESP seemed to keep the car tidy quite well.

On getting back to the dealership, he said that there was a Wheat Beige Passat in VW Australia's lot, which is behind the Barloworld place. VW headquarters is only a few streets away. It certainly is a nice colour, IMO. There were also heaps of Golf R32s there.

Interestingly, there was a VW Phaeton there. The salesman said it was the only one in Australia, when they were thinking of bringing it in. Supposedly it's the director's car. Took a look through the window, and it's a nice car inside, from what I can see. Quite neat. Not a conclusive experience, I can see why some people are surprised why such a car isn't doing so well, concluding that it must be because of the VW brand.

There was also an A8 W12 there. Also looking through the window, the interior is simpler, more minimalist than the Phaeton's - sportier. Also nice, but in a different way. Looking at them both, I can see why people reckon they're built on the same platform - actually, even the salesman said that - since the midsection's side is very similar - but hey, can't argue with full aluminium construction versus steel being a decent differentiator.

Well, if you got this far, then thanks for reading! I'm really keen on the Passat - much more than the Accord Euro. They'd also be much the same price, although the Honda has discounts due to it already being here from around 2003. Still, we could always end up getting the Jetta, which is at least an improvement over the Civic. However, after having a nice drive in the Passat, it's a little harder when you know what the better car is.

Wow, a review from snake. This is kinda rare, i can say, but it is definitely great. Well writen and very informative.

Now, about the cars.
I have seen the new Honda Civic in person, but had no chance to get in or even drive it. I had a ride in a 1998 Civic, if that matters, quite a good car, compared to my Clio. The plastics could be a lot better, as you already mentioned.

As for the new Jetta, i have seen tons of them, but never driven them. I have some experience with the Golf though, with the 1.6 FSI engine. The car belongs to a friend, it is a 3-doors silver one, and it looks really good, even though it reminds me of a plastic bag full of air. As for the drive, i liked it and it felt sporty. Nothing great though. It was just what i expected from a car of this price range.

Now let's get to the main topic. The Passat. I am quite skeptic about it. I have not settled yet on whether i like it or not, but it is a good car to purchase. For its price, gives much space and safety and i guess the 2.0TDI engine makes it quick enough, so that it is not safe or boring.

About the colour. Did you like it? It is a great colour. My S60 is coloured in a similar way - Volvo call this colour Ash Gold. Yes it looks gold under the sun, but if you look at the car at night or in a shade it looks spectacular. I have seen a Passat in the colour you refered to. It's worth it.

What else? Ah, the desicion what to buy, Jetta or Passat? I can't say. I don't know your needs and how much money are you willing to spend. I will only ask you one thing. With a X amount of money, would you better buy a full extra Jetta or a base Passat? The desicion is up to you.

Oh, would you mind giving me some prices on that cars and what engines are offered right now in Australia?

PS. About ESP. This thing is great. Two days ago it saved my life. No kidding. I was driving about 150 km/h in the highway, and a guy coming from the opposite direction, probably drank, got suddently in my way. Well, if it wasn't for ESP, then my car would have got out of the road and fell of the cliff. I had to do some kind of manoevres (or whatever this is called) to avoid a crash. And note that it was late at night and there were 5 people in the car.

Did i forget anything? Oh, the Phaethon and the A8. I have sat in both cars. They have high quality plastics and they have an extraordinary, for me, design. Many things to be placed, screens, buttons and staff, but all put in a great way, making the environment look LUXURIOUS, like you have never dreamt of...

I hope that on Thursday i will testdrive the new C70 and the all new S80, if it has arrived at the dealer. I will be there to solve some issues that i have with the car, and if all goes well i will have plenty of time to spend there. If i am in a good mood, expect big surprises. The BMW dealer is just 100 metres away...

Thanks for that.

A very positive review for the Passat. I'm impressed... All the more because I was very sceptical of the 2.0FSI Passat we took a spin in a few months ago.

I agree with everything you said, except maybe about the Civic having worse materials... Frankly, I think it will give even the Passat a run for its money. It's a supremely made car.

I suggest you get the Passat over the Jetta - I'd rather get the Golf if I get the Jetta, but there's no alternative for the Passat.

Now where's that test-drive of the Golf GT.

There is a way to find out the real weight of a VW/Audi. If you look at the trunk next to the spare tire there is a small piece of paper with codes. The codes represent the type of the model, the color , the equipment , the trim ect. One of those numbers is the curb weight of the vehicle and Passat is heavier than Jetta of course although i 'm not sure how much.

Ok, cool, thanks for the info Yannis I'm doubtful of their brochure figures because the UK brochures available from the internet have different figures for weights. Sure, they have unladen weight vs. kerb weight, but even the differences between variants are inconsistent.

Giannis and James - I was skeptical about the Passat at first, I guess. The design isn't something that's "safe" or instantly attractive. It's something that has to grow on you, and some people might never come around. The proportions can be odd, at times. Then again, IMO the proportions are much better than the Jetta's. Despite their best efforts, there's something about a Golf-with-a-boot that isn't quite as cohesive as a purpose built sedan.

According to the UK brochure, there's a 1.6FSI Passat - how's that for underwhelming? 85kW, 155Nm, 0-62mph in 12.7s in 6-speed auto transmission. I can imagine that 2.0FSI could also be a little sluggish if loaded; without the extra power and torque of the 2.0TFSI, nor the grunt of the diesel. The 2.0TDI is fine, really - there were three of us on board (dad, me, salesman), empty otherwise. Acceleration wasn't spectacular, but nothing to be ashamed of in a car for normal people, and perfectly useable.

Here's a sample of prices, all RRP, in Australian dollars:
Honda Accord Euro $33,500 / Accord Euro Luxury $40,500 (add $2000 for 5-speed auto)
Honda Civic VTi $20,990 / Civic VTi-L $24,490 / Civic Sport $29,990 ($2000 for 5-sp auto)
VW Passat 2.0TDI $42,990 / 2.0TFSI $44,990 / 3.2FSI 4Motion $54,990 (TFSI comes with 6-sp auto standard, others with 6-sp DSG, no manual available; add $2000 for wagon)
VW Jetta 2.0FSI $32,990 / 2.0TDI $35,490 / 2.0TFSI $39,990 ($2300 for 6-sp auto/DSG, standard DSG on TFSI)
VW Golf Sportline 2.0FSI / 2.0TDI - same as for Jetta, which shares most Sportline cabin specs

That's all the Passat engines. In a way, the Jetta's 2.0TFSI engine is good value, but extra insurance costs for the turbo petrol engine can make it unattractive.

We need to get an auto car because mum can't drive manual, and dad wants everyone to be able to drive it if necessary. Also, he's got something against hatchbacks - otherwise, I'd rather get a Golf than a Jetta, too, I prefer sedans, but the Jetta is a little ungainly-looking, and it's made in Mexico. On the other hand, it has underseat drawers (optional for Euro Golfs, not available here) and strangely, the red courtesy reflectors in the doors are actually lights on the Jetta, but only reflectors on both the Golf and the Passat. The Jetta also gets a full size spare tyre, whereas the Golf gets a space saver. Passats get full size, too. One more thing - Jetta's made in Mexico, which isn't quite my preference, but neither is it so bad, either.

As for the light-gold colour, it certainly is amazing. There were so many dark grey and silver VWs that I wouldn't want to just have one more of the same. Still, some people do - having a common colour can help resales values, too. I've seen the Volvo colour, as well - it's quite nice

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Well, Mirage, glad to see you in this thread. I'm pleasantly surprised by the Phaeton - maybe it was just because of its rarity in Australia (I've seen more Rolls Phantoms here than Phaetons, if you want to put it that way ). The interior looks well detailed, and well appointed. The overall car looks quite sleek. You've got yourself a very nice car, then. Still, I guess that VW out to be more realistic about what people are willing to pay for a VW, at least for the near future.

James - well, I still stand by the impression that the Civic's materials weren't as good. More hard plastics away from the immediate driver's area, less comfortable upholstery, and although not bad, the Passat's "touchable area" plastics were even better. I'm not doubting its reliability, but the material quality isn't quite the same. The one that I sat in was a Hybrid, too - made in Japan. The other ones we get are from Thailand - they're cheap thanks to the Free Trade Agreement Australia has with them.

Giannis - looking forward to your test drives! The S80 seems like a reasonable car, and come the Sydney Motor Show in October, I hope to have a sit, if it's there. It seems to be a nice size between large (5er/E/A6) and luxobarge (7er/S/A8). I'm also keen on the Honda Legend, which seems offhand to be the same size. However, I'm half expecting my reaction to be similar to what my impressions of comparing the Civic and a similarly priced/sized VW were - not quite the same.

I love to hear members personal opinions about cars. First I thought I was the only one telling about the cars Im testing. Now I see more and more reviews

Don't forget wimmer.

its easy to forget about him since he only tell us about benzes j/k

Yeah, maybe once we get enough reviews, then different people will have the opportunity to test the same cars.

I'd be interested to see what members have to say about the same car - especially since we always have lengthy discussions about the biases and preferences of professional reviewers.

Thanks for the review Snake. VW really are offering an extremely solid line up. I think if the styling were improved sales would go through the roof. The current range, while not at all ugly, looks a bit dowdy and in need of some design flair.

Oh and the new pricing strategy they have adopted in Australia is extremely welcome. A Golf sportline makes an Audi A3 look poverty packed.