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  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Michael   Michael is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-28-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deutsch
With many of the different hues of the human rainbow represented here I thought it would be cool to create a thread to celebrate diversity. This is something I've prided myself on all my life, having freinds, family members, and associates of all different colors. It's kinda cool to go to family functions and have an array of people from different cultural backgrounds come together for the love of being w/ family. It's truly beautiful, and I consider my freinds to be very much apart of my family. Everyones got something to offer w/ their own twist which is what makes diversity so great.

Wow. All I can say is Deutsch everything you have said is beautiful. However, there is one main problem with your statements or lets say your way of thinking. You are unique. What I mean by this is, is that you are different from the majority of people out there. Many people do not want to look outside there cultural boundaries to interact with other ethnicities. This is something that many countries have issues with. Take Europe for instance. Many countries in Europe have a 0 or even a negative growth rate. This is good for migrants that want to go to these particular countries to exploit the jobs that these people don’t want, and to grow a new generation there. Many native people are not to fond of those, however. They don’t really want to mix in or even have these multicultural groups come into their country. Many of these countries don’t even promise you citizenship, they just promise you a work visa, or something to that effect, so that you can work there for a certain amount of years, but never be able to live there. France is a very good example. Chriac was elected, but not my much. This shows that the French are not to receptive to difference cultures.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto
Usually I am quite cynical about "celebrating diversity" - it just seems like something politicians say ....so they will appeal to minorities.

However, in this instance I know you are genuine Deutsch, so great. To be honest, I'm not 100% convinced that multiculturalism really works - people of different races most certainly can live together in harmony - but "culture" is an entirely different matter altogether. We need only look at the conflict happening all over Western Europe at present, where second or third generation young Muslims feel that they are isolated from the mainstream and discriminated against. Then you have those people who consider themselves to be really fashionably "culturally aware" because they dine at a Turkish or Indonesian restaurant once a month - give me a break.

I think, in spite of the sometimes snide remarks by Europeans, the US actually does "celebrate diversity" better than just about anybody else - America is very accommodating to different cultures - in spite of the unfair myth that Americans try to impose their cultural values onto other nations - in truth however, the US doesn't actually have many specific cultural values - that is why it is called the land of the free - people are free to live with their own cultural values. The US is such a huge country, with many, many, different cultural and social values - what unites Americans is their flag, anthem, and a sense of being part of a union where freedom is the principle value.
I agree with you for the most part. Where I don’t agree is the notion that Americans are welcoming to other cultures. I reckon that deep down inside, these true “Americans” hate the fact that Hispanics are the number one growing minority. They don’t like to see different cultures come in and take their spot. Some cultures in America are altering as we speak the make up of the country. I for one think that America was founded on these principles of diversity. People that are considered migrants because they have had to leave their countries because of social, political, and economical reasons are the ones that are shaping America.

You are right when it comes to the unity in Americans, but you are wrong that it will unit everyone in the nation. Take for example the situation currently taking place in the US. There are illegal immigrants that work the jobs that most Americans don’t do. They don’t want to be “kicked” out of this country. They essentially are going against what a good portion of America’s want and believe in. Many senators are faced with the issue of what to do. There is a separation here.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Vargas
I'm not Mirage but I think it does. It helps prevent people feeling alienated and discriminated against because they can all be materialistic together! Poor people and unemployed people feel dissatisfied, and if there is any sort of a cultural trend in it, then it just becomes worse as people groups band together and dis-integrate from society.

Plus, having jobs keeps people down, they're too tired to create trouble.

As for Singapore, IMHO, if it wasn't for the government and a good measure of economic stability, they would have racial tensions and troubles somewhat like Malaysia and Indonesia.

You are absolutely right about the government being the one behind the racial diversity and no racial tensions. Nevertheless, who is to say that Singapore won’t suffer the fate that many countries have faced? They may in fact be another France, Germany, etc. and unite to form a new culture (in decades and decades) of course and not believe in multiculturalizing.
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Mr. M   Mr. M is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-28-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto
I think that is probably true too - although James' observation is very interesting - what do you think Mirage77, does income/wealth play a part in helping cultural harmony.
That is assuming everyone else is just as rich, and that there are no income disparities, then perhaps racial harmony would be that lot easier to achieve.

However, that is not possible because everyone earns a different amount and there are bound to be the rich and the poor. Acceptance in the form of wealth can be described as 'buying' into being accepted, because people only respect you by virtue of your wealth, and nothing else. It does help in racial integration, of course - but perhaps maybe only in a superficial level - deep down inside, they might not accept someone who can't afford to go college (for example, James's case in point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFREAK
You are absolutely right about the government being the one behind the racial diversity and no racial tensions. Nevertheless, who is to say that Singapore won’t suffer the fate that many countries have faced? They may in fact be another France, Germany, etc. and unite to form a new culture (in decades and decades) of course and not believe in multiculturalizing.
Of course - who is to tell the future.
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SDNR   SDNR is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFREAK
You are right when it comes to the unity in Americans, but you are wrong that it will unit everyone in the nation. Take for example the situation currently taking place in the US. There are illegal immigrants that work the jobs that most Americans don’t do. They don’t want to be “kicked” out of this country. They essentially are going against what a good portion of America’s want and believe in. Many senators are faced with the issue of what to do. There is a separation here.
Thanks for you feedback BMWFREAK. I guess America has some huge social problems that Europe does not - literally millions of illegal immigrants, and a steady flow of new ones entering the US every day must put enormous pressure on the nation's infrastructure.

You made me think more carefully about what I said earlier, as you said, America was founded on principles of diversity - New York is the very embodiment of cultural diversity - but it's not really integration though, different ethnic groups tend to live in specific areas where the majority of their neighbours are of the same cultural background.

One thing that does stand out about America is that interracial marriage is still a big issue for many people. In Britain, for example, interracial marriage is quite common and not really an issue for most people. In the US however, mixed-race relationships still seem to be a slightly awkward issue for many people.

Race is always a major issue in the US - we all know about the LAPD and their contribution to racial harmony, but I'm always astounded at how so many legal or political cases in the US drag issues of race into a completely unrelated argument - it is like everybody is paranoid about race and colour - it is a thing I find most difficult to understand about American society.

Last edited by SDNR; 04-29-2006 at 11:05 AM.
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Deutsch   Deutsch is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 12:22 AM

The perfect movie for race relations in America is CRASH, personally my most fav movie of all time for now. It's so raw and so real, anyone could appreciate it, I'd hope.

As far as "interracial marriage" - I even hate the term "interracial", two people married, what else more need be said? - I have a famly full of couples of different ethnicities and everyone is cool, but it's still very delicate at the same time, certain members of my family refuse to define others as being one thing or the other when it comes to making generalizations(hope that made sense?). Growing up, I was never close w/ people of my ethnic make up, and for that reason I have had the privelege of getting to know other cultures and peoples in a more intimate way, because I could never resort to just spending time w/ people that "looked like me", and I'm happy my life turned out that way. When it comes to female attraction, I have no preferences, I think that females are beautifl period, and each individual has something unique to offer, I tend to focuse more on personality than looks anyway. Though looks are indeed important, in the long run personality wins over. It's kind of hard having this open minded approach to dating, because not every girl thinks the same way, though there seem to be many that do.

In general terms, I'd rather hang w/ all sorts of people than to hang out w/ one specific group for the sake of identification. I enjoy learning and discovering commanalities, because as I said about females, everyone has something to offer, you just have to be willing to take the gamble and get to know other people. We're not as different from one another as we'd like to think. It's much easier to attempt to make things so black and white, as oppose to see all the colors in all their hues, tones, and textures.
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SDNR   SDNR is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 01:51 AM

You sure are a liberal-minded guy Deutsch, and also very wise. If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious, what is your ethnic make up?
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Deutsch   Deutsch is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto
You sure are a liberal-minded guy Deutsch, and also very wise. If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious, what is your ethnic make up?
Afircan American, European, and Native American. However my family encompasses a much wider scope of different ethnicities. I could literally walk around the streets w/ my cousins and greet you, introducing them one by one, and you'd probably be a tad flabergased.

Last edited by Deutsch; 09-04-2006 at 04:12 PM.
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Bozzor   Bozzor is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 04:44 AM

Singapore had some serious race riots back in the 1960s, which demanded a very strict government crackdown. It is a very 'correct' society now, but perhaps not the most happy. Multiracial societies generally work, but multi-cultural ones are - on balance - more precarious, especially during times of economic hardship.
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 10:57 AM

I've been busy with work and on a deadline the past day or so.... returning to this thread and seeing all the new posts is incredibly interesting.
I get the sense that many of us grapple with these issues-
some on a first-hand experiential level...which, to my mind, is valuable in that it is the most immediate agent of change and epiphany.

Boz and Roberto have brought up intermixing of races-(sorry if that sounds a little clinical) and Deutsch has kindly responded to a coupla questions put to him.
I'd like to take the dialogue one small step further...the 21st Century children of these transcultural unions.
When I was out in Los Angeles in 2004 I could not get over the amount of young people who were hybrids...this fantastic melange of color and ethnicity....
I think this is the new America- a kind of DNA stew- that is happening, primarily, on the West Coast. The old model...call it East Coast...and primarily attached to the urban centers of 19th and 20th Century European immigrants- saw inter-marraiges between say, Irish and German or Greek and Anglo. Today, what you're beginning to see in the western U.S. is (eg) kids whose mother and father are Latino and Vietnamese, Black and Thai (Tiger Woods)....all sorts of incredible combinations that, eventually perhaps, will begin to redefine race and ethnicity and blur racial lines that divide people. And maybe the U.S. and maybe the West Coast is the only place where this can happen.
...and it is happening....and when someone like me, who grew up in a liberal white household but very aware of predjudices and stereotypes-sees it, it makes me feel like maybe this is the natural way-or one answer to level hatred and ignorance out.
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klier   klier is offline
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 12:02 PM

My country imo is the first and best form of multiculturalism
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Re: Multiculturalism - 04-29-2006, 01:41 PM

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Originally Posted by klier
My country imo is the first and best form of multiculturalism
I am sorry to be critical klier but I have read numerous articles referring to "The Crisis of Dutch Multiculturalism". I need only point to examples like the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh ....... or Ayaan Hirsi Ali having to live with constant armed security.
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