German Car Zone

I thaught 2PAC was dead, guess there is one left...

Nope, it's not Mr. Shakur.

This is the PAC:

You are one fire guys, at least we can still laugh

While you do that, I'll fall asleep smiling about this video:


While yes, BMW has grown tremendously in the past decade and offer many more choices in cars,

Apart from the CSL, there are more M cars now than ever (I'm thinking 90's) and are all great in their own ways. Yes, they have more "everyday" cars, but what car company nowadays don't... Really tell me one car company. Porsche has SUV's (and a diesel one at that) and Lamborghini is about to release a 4 door.

I understand that because I actually work for BMW, my arguments won't have any traction at all. But even if I wasn't, I wouldn't be so dissatisfied. This has been beaten to death lately, so I'll just leave it at that.

It is just harder to make those "on the edge" cars nowadays...

This is like hearing dogs bark off in the distance.

Again, the same old excuses.

Why is it that Porsche, Aston-Martin, Mercedes, and others can make money from low-volume cars and BMW can't? Or so we're lead to believe.


This about the M3 CSL is BS. If you can spend the money and time to make a 5000lb SUV into an M vehicle then surely you can spend the time and money to turn an existing M product into something even hotter. This about money doesn't wash and it is nonsense.

Please tell me what the difference is between taking an X5 or X6 and turning it into an M vehicle and turning an existing M vehicle into an even hotter product. Hell with the M3 all of the basics are already there!!!!!!! All BMW would be doing it tweaking and adding, no total redesigning of many things or the amount of effort in getting a 5000lb 'truck' to dance like a proper M vehicle.

Again, isn't the CS based on the 7-Series? If so what is the problem? This about people won't buy it is nothing but cop-out plain and simple. If people won't buy a high-end BMW it is because of something BMW is doing wrong, not the market or economy. There is still a market for high-end cars. Everyone hasn't lost their shirt or gone broke yet.

If we're going to blame the market for the cancellation of the CS then why the hell is BMW taking the 7-Series chassis and turning it into a Rolls-Royce? Because the market still exists. BMW not wanting to design, build and sell/market a high-end car is their own problem, not the market or anything else. Others do it.

**** The Mercedes-Benz S-Class facelift was not delayed ******

It was not going to be shown this year anyway. The car is a 2010 model for the U.S. which means a spring/summer 2009 debut in Europe. Mercedes would have hardly shown the Concept Fascination and the facelifted S at the same show.

************ Incorrect Information about the S-Class Facelift ************


Making a high-end car isn't a money losing thing for Porsche, Mercedes and others so why is it a money losing thing at BMW? Even Lamborghini and Aston-Martin are (or were before the sales downturn) showing a profit.

Now you're telling me a company as smart and as financially savy as BMW can't turn a profit on 4-door coupe based on an already existing, pedestrian platform like the 7-Series? A very, extremely dubious arguement. If that is the case then the X6 should be a money loser too, but I bet it isn't.

Now there is a theme at BMW that crossovers are the salvation of the market. Well at what point do you cut the pie into too many slices? V3/PAC, PAS, X5, X6, X3, X1 not to mention their own touring models. How many is enough? When do you reach the point of diminishing returns?

I can understand not doing anything to the M6 (CSL) this late in its life. Kinda pointless since the car has been on the market for 5 years now.


Mercedes is going to cancel the SLC? NOT. The same thing that was said about the X5 and X6 M models apply to the SLC, development is too far along. We've already seen what appears to be an interior mock up.

We're really supposed to believe that taking the 7-Series platform and doing something different with it and charging more won't result in any profit for BMW? While their doing the same thing with the 3-Series platform for the PAC, ditto for the X5 to X6 and 7-Series to Rolls-Royce?

If there is no market for the CS, then there isn't going to be much of a market for a X6M or X5M either. I can see one or the other, but both an X5 and X6 M? Seems to me that only the X6 should get the M treatment considering how many times we had to read about how the X5 wasn't worthy of the "M" treatment. There is no market for a CS, but there is a market for a 500hp, 5000lb truck M truck? Somebody is drunk on the koolaid.

Just say that BMW is weary about being able to sell a high-end product because of their past market (though not the cars themselves IMO) flops like the 850i and Z8, not because they can't make money or that a CS would cost too much to develop. BMW got cold feet and blinked, not because any of this "they can't make money" or the "market is gone" nonsense, all the while more Rollers are being designed from the same chassis no less. Market is bad for sure, but it isn't gone and BMW wouldn't be spending a fortune to make the CS since all of the basic hardware is already in production.

Sure crossovers are hot, but they aren't everything and they surely shouldn't become this obsessive focus at BMW. I surely hope things turn around in the next 6-12 months so the CS and other real BMWs can be at least re-considered for production.


M

Umm is this the future of BMW?
They are turning into a company of ppl carriers..

Well said Merc1, I agree totally. First thing I would take off the list is that hideous X1.

I am very sceptic about the 3 Series GT.

The only the gap in 3 Series I can see now is a shooting break. But not in the form of 5 door hatchback with a higher roof line.

I'd rather see a car being a combination of 3 Series coupe and touring. Something like 2-door touring but with more aggresive design and lower roof line.

Maybe someone is willing to make a p'shop of it?

Guys, BMW are executing a different strategy ...

Eg. comparable Audi models are usually bigger than BMW models - mainly due FWD platform architecture, and also due betting on bigger dimensions in general.

Quite some customers expressed a wish for a bigger & more versatile BMW cars. Therefore - instead of increasing dimensions of core models (like Audi do) - BMW decided to offer extra models: with more space and extra versatility. The Progressive Activity Sedan (5er based) & Coupe (3er based). MB have a similar strategy: although their spacious & versatile models are a bit (mini)van-ish (B-class & R-class), while BMW crossovers will be more exciting - design wise.

Btw, Shooting Brake models are not what BMW customers want.

Regarding X1: European customers want a crossover / SAV smaller than X3 ... some kind of 3er Touring Allroad. And they will get it - in X1 form. Audi have also confirmed Q3 - an X1 rival. And MB will also follow with BLK compact SAV.