German Car Zone

BMW Power · 11-08-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolraoul

Absolutely not. The coolest SUV ever made was, is and will forever stay the G-Wagen. And it'll still be the coolest SUV on earth when the X6'll be at his 6th generation.

Concerning the CS... I hope it won't be delayed too much, because even beautiful cars like that don't last forever. New times, new design... The risk is for it to be outfashioned if it stays too long without seeing daylight. Its design will need update, too, if it doesn't go into production in a short-term time period.

Anyway, BMW seens surprisingly shy, and as some notices, 3/4 of the new BMW seems to be SUVs or PAS or whatever they call their unsporty fat new cars. Hardly what to expect from once the sportiest of the bunch... role that Audi is currently happily takingover, despite their cars having no RWD...

For me, BMW is about to loose its sporty image to the benefit of Audi. Maybe it's what they want, maybe it's not, that I don't know, but thing is BMW is completely ruling out every inch of sportivity of their line-up.

Few is left from "The Ultimate Driving Machine", and the passion seems completely gone. BMW is very now greed-oriented, and has completely lost the spirit.

They closely follow the market, and find a lot of good reasons not to release anything that is not 100% rational. How come they don't build anything that is crazy? It's what legend and passion is about. If every carmaker worked like BMW does today, no legendary car would have seen the daylight, and the passion enduces by cars wouldn't be half as strong as today.

What they don't get imo, is that the client of the future is a kid now. Who didn't dreamed of a BMW 507, an M1, an e30 M3? BMW has built its image when a 2002tii was just outlandish and had no competitor at all, and when an e30 was a better handler than any Porsche and could speak with a Ferrari. The actual client dreamed of these fantastic cars.

The kids now have pics of SLR, R8, Black Series on their wall. But no BMW at all can give him any emotion. Once grown up, this kid will realize his wet dream by buying an Audi or Mercedes. Not a BMW.

Halo cars are an investment into the future, they are long-term image-builder. BMW seems only to think short-term.

Post of the month! Cant tell you how glad I am to see u back on the forums bro. You are 100% spot on and no amount of creative marketing can change what you have explained so elaborately.

Sunny · 11-08-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolraoul

Absolutely not. The coolest SUV ever made was, is and will forever stay the G-Wagen. And it'll still be the coolest SUV on earth when the X6'll be at his 6th generation.

Concerning the CS... I hope it won't be delayed too much, because even beautiful cars like that don't last forever. New times, new design... The risk is for it to be outfashioned if it stays too long without seeing daylight. Its design will need update, too, if it doesn't go into production in a short-term time period.

Anyway, BMW seens surprisingly shy, and as some notices, 3/4 of the new BMW seems to be SUVs or PAS or whatever they call their unsporty fat new cars. Hardly what to expect from once the sportiest of the bunch... role that Audi is currently happily takingover, despite their cars having no RWD...

For me, BMW is about to loose its sporty image to the benefit of Audi. Maybe it's what they want, maybe it's not, that I don't know, but thing is BMW is completely ruling out every inch of sportivity of their line-up.

Few is left from "The Ultimate Driving Machine", and the passion seems completely gone. BMW is very now greed-oriented, and has completely lost the spirit.

They closely follow the market, and find a lot of good reasons not to release anything that is not 100% rational. How come they don't build anything that is crazy? It's what legend and passion is about. If every carmaker worked like BMW does today, no legendary car would have seen the daylight, and the passion enduces by cars wouldn't be half as strong as today.

What they don't get imo, is that the client of the future is a kid now. Who didn't dreamed of a BMW 507, an M1, an e30 M3? BMW has built its image when a 2002tii was just outlandish and had no competitor at all, and when an e30 was a better handler than any Porsche and could speak with a Ferrari. The actual client dreamed of these fantastic cars.

The kids now have pics of SLR, R8, Black Series on their wall. But no BMW at all can give him any emotion. Once grown up, this kid will realize his wet dream by buying an Audi or Mercedes. Not a BMW.

Halo cars are an investment into the future, they are long-term image-builder. BMW seems only to think short-term.

There are some inaccuracies in that post. With the exception of M1, BMW never had any 'poster' cars and even M1 hardly any effect on BMW's image. It got to where it is by making normal sedans handle great. 2002tii was far from anything outlandish you make it out to be, instead it was a practical car that the true enthusiast appreciated, not some teenager's wet dream. Same goes for E30 M3. BMW got to where it was not by making halo cars, but by making every car handle great.

Having said that I do wish BMW will go back to making more true enthusiast's cars ala CSL instead of all the SUVs. But a big GT like the CS is also far from that.

SKYSONY · 11-09-2008, 06:00 AM

BMW did cars for enthusiast of the spoty drive. I remeber my dad buying E39 instead of anything else because of this. People who bought the E30 3er was because it has no competence, nothing han compare to its handle.

When I was a child, I remeber my father telling me that BMW was something like Porsche, but making sedans. Remeber that E36 coupe without any rivals, or the E39 M5 with nothing close to it. BMW offered something that didn´t offered any other brand, comfortable sedans with a great touch of sporty hadling.

Nowadays, you want to buy an M3, and you can also see the RS4 and the RS5, of course you can see the C63, and if you are a crazy fanatic of power, you would choose the RS6 instead of the M5. And maybe the M3 and M5 still have that something special, but they don´t stand out from the rest like they used to do, now we have cars that can the same power and sport feeling, and that can even beat them.

I like how the latest Mercs can be the clasy sedans that they have always been, but also can be (and people are choosing this more than the clasy option) a great sporty looking sedan just adding the AMG pack, or how Mercedes and Audi can make cars that sometimes beat the BMW even being not that sporty in the standard version (A6vs5er).

And that is what BMW has lost, they don´t put enought money on shuting Merc, Audi or whoever mouth up. And having to compete with to the CL 65 aMG, the S 65, the gullwing, the RS6, the S8, the R8 what?, the 1er Concept tii? the X6 M?.

And now, some BMw fan (even when I am a BMW fan as well) will come to say me that BMW doesn´t need such cars and the same things as always.

klier · 11-09-2008, 09:24 AM

^ I'm truly amazed to read how some of you think about all this.

Just for the record: BMW DOES NOT FOLLOW.
Fill in the rest yourself. BMW is BMW, and thank God for that.

And SKYSONY, I think the only two people here who say BMW doesn't need a 'supercar' are our very own spin docters.
Sunny said it just right....now since CS is cancelled, everybody here is moaning about not having a R8 like car in the line-up....CS was a 5 meter + long boat, driving much like the new 7er in Sport Plus probably. Nothing here has changed.

klier · 11-09-2008, 09:31 AM

If anything, now that the CS has been cancelled, the M engineers finally have time again to work on cars that BMW fans like....a Tii version of the 1er coupé and an M3 CSL. Both have solid foundations to build on, and they can probably do both in less time than the CS.

SKYSONY · 11-09-2008, 09:59 AM

Klier, I think a Cs like car is much more BMW-like than a R8 competitor would be, just because BMW is famous for their sporty sedans.

And M division is not supossed to work now on M3 CSL just because CS is cancelled. I think there should be working on the new F10 M5. Remeber M3 CSL was axed because there´s no market enought for such a car.

The good thing is that BMW still has its M3 and M5, the true awesome driving machines, no matter what a C63 or RS6 can do.

coolraoul · 11-09-2008, 10:00 AM

Thing is, when the e30 and e36 were released, they were absolutely crazy. So much power and handling in such a practical and discreet car was a never-seen combination. Especially given a quite low pricetag and performance that were well into Porsche territory.

Now, the M3 is still the benchmark. No doubt about that. Better-in-class handling, chassis and motor. However, it's the most "reasonable" of the crazy-sedans! It lacks the appeal of the brutish C63, a car that may isn't as well balanced but who just blows your mind away with its sheer power.

The M5/M6, on the other hand, cannot be compared to anything in its category. Its insane motor is just unique. It's for me the most "passion-BMW" of the line-up.

However, my point is... sure, a BMW is still the most fun to drive, regardless of the category, of the three. But it has lost the "craziness". All their models, even most of the Ms, are "reasonable" now compared to some competitors (bar the M5/M6).

BMW don't have any true insane model. A model that really can make you wet your pants and do anything to get your hands on. A model that makes everybody shut up and look at it stupidly with the mouth open and the eyes wide. A model that makes you to a little child in front of a brand-new toy. Such a model that the little kid will say "I'l get a BMW when I'll be older". This is what passion is about, and this is what makes the image of a carmaker.

And above that, their "driving fun" advantage towards the competition is much smaller than before, with the new Audi platform and the Merc that are now a bit more driver-oriented. Still the most enjoyable, but not as clearly as before, just like Skysony said.

A 1-Series tii, lightweight with a nice 4-pot high-revv engine could be a very good idea indeed, alongside with a CSL-M3. But BMW needs a halo-car, imo. Something totally beautiful to make us dream. Because BMW does not seem to dream any more, and that is very sad.

EnI · 11-27-2008, 01:26 PM

Latest info:

Project Gran Turismo development is going on ... yet as a Rolls-Royce project.

As a part of the baby RR family (also based on F01/02 platform). A true rival of ultra-luxury & ultra-expensive AM Rapide.

Calculations show such car could be much more profitable than a BMW badged car. Since BMW would be able to charge it approx. 100k Euros more (150k for CS vs 250k for RR GT).

SKYSONY · 11-27-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnI

Latest info:

Project Gran Turismo development is going on ... yet as a Rolls-Royce project.

As a part of the baby RR family (also based on F01/02 platform). A true rival of ultra-luxury & ultra-expensive AM Rapide.

Calculations show such car could be much more profitable than a BMW badged car. Since BMW would be able to charge it approx. 100k Euros more (150k for CS vs 250k for RR GT).

So bye bye CS... It would be a good car this new RR GT, but definetly not as pretty as a BMW badged one.

jack · 11-27-2008, 03:08 PM

sad news for those who supported the CS idea
but at least somehow the spirit lifes on...

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