Well it's only natural that Pagani updates their car it came out in 1999. It has a normal production lifespan something the Carrera GT does not. I actually find it quite impressive that the C12 was able to compete all these years without a real facelift (until the Fangio), just a few bumps in power.

And don't forget Pagani doesn't have anywhere near the resources or racing experience as Porsche. There is simply no reason not to be impressed.

Their new car will be simply incredible, especially if Mercedes delivers this time.

I agree with you there Luw'. All this constant trying and minor modifying, I can understand it from a marketing stand point, but it is not helping their image one bit. It's true that progress is a continual thing, but the fact that Zonda, as well as Koenigsegg are solely focused on bettering the CGT times, it really does suggest that both companies underestimated either the CGT's capabilities, or the complexities of the Ring.
I say all this, but I will make it clear, I am not a CGT fan. It may be an amazing car in terms of performance, but the Porsche name hasn't been as 'glamorous' to me as Ferrari and Lamborghini....and also, I am not a fan of the car's appearance (same with Zonda).

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Haha, it's funny reading your comments and actions at time Artist. You go on about the speed, talking about who's the fastest, which car could smoke which car, racing on a track, how this car can kill that car ... all in the name of outright performance. But at the first mention of the name Koenigsegg (more specifically, the CCX), you quickly jump off the performance bandwagon and on to the Reliability bandwagon.

Yes, you need a reliable car before you can exploit its abilities, but the least you could do is give Koenigsegg some respect rather than turn a blind eye to everything and make a case against them solely based on reliability issues. You point out, that unlike Porsche, Zonda has no motor-racing involvement (past or present) that they can use to their advantage. What about Koenigsegg? Same boat. How about the fact that Koenigsegg make their engines completely in-house while Zonda relies on Mercedes/AMG? That alone is enough reason for me to give Koenigsegg some deserved respect.

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Now back to the topic. I'll be honest and say I ain't much a fan of the CGT or the Zonda or even the CCR. I actually don't care too much for cars in this league. Yes, they are the pinnacle of their industry, but these cars are too extreme for my liking, but nonetheless, it's very interesting reading Zonda's and Koenigsegg's ambitions to be the King of the Ring (or in Zonda's case: The Queen - I say this because Artist all states how the Zonda looks like a females body from top-view )
A little part of me wants to laught at Zonda, and at Artist (no offence buddy ) ...but I have a funny feeling I will regret it once the Clubsport tackles the Ring. ...But 1 second ? ... geee... I have no idea why these exotic car makers spend large sums of money to make the car a couple of seconds quicker. I guess that's what the cars are built for, and I bet once Zonda or Koenigsegg do have the fastest time at the Ring they'll go crazy coz they'll have bragging rights...but it all seems a bit ..umm... 'childish' in a sense.

Anyhoot, thanks for the post Just_Me..!!

The C12 was concieved in 1999 (see my post above), so how could they underestimate a car that wasn't even a thought at the time. As someone said before the Zonda originally was never tested on the Ring.

Well, to some extent Pagani does their own tuning on the Merc lump so that wonderful sound it makes is thanks to Pagani. Where as Koenigsegg does indeed do quite a bit more its engine still originated from a Ford Mustang.

wow.. well.. listen..
why do i first talk about performance..and then about realibility.. thats beacuse the CCX was not mentioned in the discussion.. and the 2 cars that the thread was about allready has realibility quality and so on.. so there is no need to mention it..
but the koenigseggs doesent.. now i admire koenigsegg.. cause they are a small company like pagani.. but we have alot of those that make superfast cars.. but not so good cars.. like old TVR´s ,B engeneering.. morgan.. laraki.. spyker and so on..thats the group where the CCx belongs imo..
and its not a bad group at all.. big up to them for making cars and even surviving concidiring their size..

and now to the zonda.. you all claim that pagani made the zonda F to compete with the CGT.. and thats it.. only for that reason.. thats so far from the truth..that its almost silly.. the CCX on the otherhand..is a purpose made car..koenigsegg says themselfs that the target is the fastest top speed..
now pagani never said anything about targets.. the car was meant to be upgraded to a final fangio edition..and this plan was made before the cgt was made..
now there has been 2 zonda versions..and you call it silly and image destructive.. please.. get a grip..
now if they made another one..then you could say..they need to come up with something new.. but i can asssure you that this is it..the final zonda is the F...

now some of you need to give credit where credit is due.. this is paganis first car.. ne company.. and it rocks the shit out of established brands like porsche. lambo and ferrari..wich all have a tremendous history and equally tremendous cash..
so until any one here can show me a car from a new manufacturer that has rocked the establishment like this.. i rest my case..

PS
the koenigsegg uses a ford engine..so its not completely home made..
and that funny feeling you have about the Clubsport being the fastest..let me tell you thats a real feeling and hang on to it.. hard.. hahah

I hope you all know that Pagani did some tweaking on The Zonda F's chassi down at Nordschleife and they drove around the tracks several times before the final laptime. So its not like they took a car from the factory and instantly did 7.33 min. I know Koengisegg did the same. The driver Horst von Saurma are also giving the Zonda and Koenig tips how to improve the laptime.
I wonder if Porsche did the same with CGT

Sorry if I made it sound like there the CGT is the only thing on their mind, coz it's not. What I meant was, right now (ie: in the past year) Zonda and Koenigsegg have put much more attention on challenging the CGT's record at the Ring. The CGT is currently the benchmark and the Ring is the ultimate proving ground for supercars who are concerned not only with speed, but handling and the overall set up of the car itself (compared with say the Veyron which purely focuses on speed alone).
I wasn't talking down Zonda, simply saying that recently there has been added emphasis in the Zonda camp about bettering the CGT's time.

Well, again, I wasn't implying that Zonda don't know a thing about engines or anything along that line, I'm sure they know a great deal. That statement was directed at Artist, because he continually turns a blind-eye to Koenigsegg, so I was just giving a comparison between Zonda and Koenigsegg to suggest that he should give credit where it's due. He tends to talk up Zonda, but in that example about their respective engines, you have to acknowledge how Zonda do get is easier than Koenigsegg because they get it supplied by MB/AMG.

well read my last post..that should let you know why i talk up the zonda..

Porsche developed their car on the ring from the start, so I'm sure it wasn't nearly as necessary. I don't see much wrong with them tuning the suspensions on the cars if the cars do indeed have adjustable ones. It's no different than the owner of a car having them adjusted to go hit the track or having it adjusted depending on the quality of roads where he or she lives.

I think you guys are getting a bit too hung up on one number, especially with how close they are.

updated with scans...

favorite supercar is BACK!!!