Well my friend we've had this conversation a many times. I agree. Mercedes simply doesn't have the money and seemingly the design resources (stylists) to really come up with something grand and different enough from a Mercedes in order to fully exploit the Maybach brand. I've learned in personal life that you always go with your first mind that is what MB should have done and made this car "The Maybach by Mercedes" in two lengths and the 57S should have been the base car from the start and priced at 250K right with the Arnage T and the 62 right at 300K, and they should have been grand, massive Mercedes-Benzes. A proposed car to compete against the Continental Flying Spur tells me that they still don't get it with the S65 already priced in the class. If they're going keep on with Maybach being a seperate brand than the Arnage, which is comfortably over 200K should be the target, not the Flying Brick. This borders on madness. Now I do like Lu's idea of a super CLS, but it needs to be priced out the range of any Mercedes and not look like one either. That latter will be hard to do IMO. I think I would go wild and let an Italian design the next generation Maybachs if I were in charge or hell hire back Brunno and tell him to come up with something that doesn't look like a Mercedes.

M

Roberto and Merc are right. Trying to further develop the Maybach world into something all to its own with a broader range is sinking another foot into the quicksand - both fiscally and conceptually.

The SLR is a true supercar and is able to carries a Mercedes badge with a straight face. Maybach could have been built as a special adjunct to the Mercedes brand with a stright face, and probably would have come off as a more authentic product.

On the other hand, there was probably fear in the boardroom that vehicles like the S63 would cast the Maybach in the bad light and remove much of the car's purpose as a status object. Really, if you put the two cars down on paper the Maybach 57 appears to be a absolute rip-off.

In the end, the Maybach brand has the problem of being neither fish nor foul. Extensions of the brand would only make sense if we're talking about an extravagant coupe or cabrio, although such a thing might only function as image life-support at this point. The Maybach sedans have been rendered dusty before their time.

16.06.2006. Maybach targets Bentley with 'baby' Maybach

Despite less-that-encouraging sales of the ultra-luxury Maybach limousine, DaimlerChrysler is said to be seriously considering a smaller version of the car.

The Maybach 51 would be based on the Mercedes S-class platform and compete with an entry-level Rolls-Royce currently being developed by its German owners BMW, reported Germany's Auto Motor und Sport magazine DCX is said to be looking at the equivalent of about $256 000 for the mini-Maybach and hopes it will appeal to a slightly less affluent clientele than that attracted to the top-of-the-range models, the Maybach 57 and 62 which cost up to $385 000.

Buoyant sales of Bentley's Continental Flying Spur had highlighted the potential of the segment, the magazine said.

The 5.1m car is likely to be less conservative than its big brother and could go on sale from October, 2009. Maybach already has a range of V8 and V12 engines available.

DaimlerChrysler refused to comment on the report but the usually well-informed motoring magazine said development was advanced.

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Tine, I understood your post but I wasn't too sure about that fact 'Why would someone buy this car if...'? There are many similar cases out there and you know if the car has MM, Ferrari, RR, Bentley badge it will sell good. I'm trying to say, there are always buyers for these car but the question is, will the producer make the car? I think we got an answer now!

This would be an extremely stupid move by Maybach. A smaller saloon will only come into conflict with the S-class. Other ultra high end variants, coupe's, convertibles etc. will do more for the brand cache, and avoid unecessary product line overlap, which could damage both brands.

If MB really wants to muscle in on the lower end Bentley's and Rollers, they should increase the differentiation between normal S-class's and long wheelbase 500's and 600's. The ultra high tech platform is there, so it would only be a matter of an exquisite external and internal makeover. Reskin it and restuff it!

I feel it is the car they need, to compare with others in its class....

The S-Class has no part of this, and will never be affected by its sales...

I agree.

I know I am one of the few in the minority here who think they should do it. If there ever was a name that one could build a brand on, it is Maybach.

It remains to be seen whether today's DCX has the creative force needed for designing and producing highly desirable cars outside their core product, like VW with Audi, Bentley and Lambo. Yesterday's Daimler Benz did not, at least they did not during the ~10years they owned Auto Union.

Sure donau, you make good points but I am still left wondering what is the point of all of this. You said if ever there was a name they could build a brand on it is Maybach ...and I agree with that, but lets remember that the Maybach project was never initially intended to be a brand at all ..but rather a singular top-of-the-line Mercedes model like the 540K or W100 were decades before. It seems to me that because the MM57/62 has clearly failed to inspire the world (as was obviously intended) DCX are looking enviously at Bentley and are seeking to replicate the success of the Flying Spur. So my question now is, is Maybach still supposed to be recognized as a top-of-the-line Mercedes? ......or is it now an autonomous brand? (which was not the original intention at all) -- as far as I'm concerned Mercedes-Benz is still a worthy competitor against Rolls-Royce and Bentley, is it now to be a competitor against Maybach too?

Always enjoy conversations with you Roberto

I actually agree with everything you said:

1. Maybach was never intended to be a brand
2. DCX failed to wow the world with Maybach
3. It appears as the plan is to start competing with the Flying Spurs
4. Mercedes Benz (the top models) is a worthy competitor to RR & B
5. The danger exists that they will compete against themselves

As to the question of whether it is supposed to be recognized as the top of the line Mercedes or an autonomous brand, it appears to me that for better or worse, DCX has started on a path making it an independent brand and at first glance it does appear as if they are shooting themselves in the foot.

I suspect that the prestige of the name itself has been the cause for this decision.

I do think though that there is room for another luxury brand (there are'nt too many out there right now relatively speaking) provided that DCX will be able to make it so different from the Mercedes brand in appearance, comforts, and operational qualities that it will appeal to a different market sector. I would not rule out something that would actually remind us of the Maybachs of old. But here's where the question becomes: has DCX of today the creative talent to pull this off? They have been known to fail in the past. I for one, as a keen admirer of most Daimler products hope that they will be able to pull this one off. With this name the stakes are so high that they better be able to pull it off come hell or high water.

DCX certainly do have some very brilliant designers, it is just a matter of whether the guys in the boardroom will let them have complete freedom to create something extraordinary -- just like the old days a Daimler-Benz when the bosses had much more faith in the genius of their engineers and designers ..and not placing so many [budgetary and other] constraints on them. Of course I realize that there have to be financial restrictions because everything is so very expensive these days, but I still think DCX management need to be more daring with Maybach ...afterall, it was the sheer audacity (and perhaps outrageousness) of the Rolls-Royce Phantom that is it's greatest attribute.

I was reading an article about the Mercedes W100 (yes I can't get enough of that old limo ) it mentioned how Paul Bracq, Mercedes' chief designer in the 1960's, though retired, still designs concepts for modern-day Rolls-Royces, Mercedes-Benzes, and Maybachs ......why oh why don't DCX at least look at the great man's ideas ...the 600 is afterall one of the truly greatest cars of all time ...is it possible he could create another masterpiece for Maybach ....I certainly believe he could.

Alas, I am dreaming.