You are correct Sunny, Rolls-Royce and Bentley do have the prestige image which definitely does attract buyers ....but the S class is still the preferred limousine of the world's elite ....it doesn't matter that it is not as expensive as a Rolls-Royce or Bentley -- and clearly, Maybach did no damage to the S class's reputation either. The vast majority of people who would be considered potential buyers for a Rolls-Royce Phantom or Maybach would still prefer to own an S class, 7er, or A8 (and Cadillac or Lincoln in the USA) -- many people would find a Phantom or Maybach to be way too "loud" and showy. Afterall, a LWB version of the Audi A6 is a very popular chauffeured car among the nouveau riche in China.

In the past, the S class has been considered to be the main competitor for Rolls-Royce and Bentley -- I don't believe that has changed at all ...especially since it still beats them in comparison tests.

I frankly didn't know (and I highly doubt) many people are cross shopping S class with Rolls. IMO at the price point Rolls is on, people are paying for the exclusivity and heritage. While I can make a case for Mercedes heritage, I can't see how it can hold a candle to Rolls for exclusivity. Hence my case why they need Maybach to address the exclusivity. Of course it is a different matter that they blundered by exactly killing that exclusivity factor by making Maybach look like a Mercedes.

Or let me rephrase my argument this way - if the case against Maybach why it did badly vs Rolls is that it looked like a glorified Mercedes, how can a Mercedes hope to do any better (at the price point Rolls is)?

Hello Sunny, I was editing that last post while you replied to it. I was a bit tough on you ....I am sorry about that

I hope my edited post is clearer about my opinion on the matter

You do make an excellent point though Sunny, it will be interesting to see what Mercedes does ....but personally, I don't think it really matters that Mercedes-Benz is not as rare as a Rolls-Royce, I think people buy Mercedes-Benzes for different reasons than Rolls-Royces. I think Mercedes should embrace its own heritage (and if they get the ODC right, they will be on the right track), rather than trying to create a Rolls-Royce.

np, I am glad you got the point I was trying to make .

Yes, it would be interesting to see the route Mercedes takes with Maybach. As an automotive fan, I would hate to see it die so soon after its rebirth.

For me Rolls has fully changed. The actual is a bling-bling car mainly bought by US rappers (with full-chrome ugly 28 inch rims...).

It is a success because it is big, and has a bigger grille, bigger everything, it is impressive. It is the rappers' diamond...
It is no more the refined, elegant car for rich businessmen or lords, chauffeur-drived and so one.

Maybach is more sold to these businessmen it is not so bling-bling. It only lacks elegance I think, give it a better shape and it will replace the Roller in the heart of many. It is not as jet-set, superficial than the Roller.

The Bentleys (excepted the Frogs) are more focused on this elegant and refined clientele.

Of course, the numbers are more impressive if you sell to rappers, than to businessmen...

Concerning Mercedes, I think if the product is as it should be (ten times better than a Rolls or Bentley, like it was in the past with the W100 for instance, with full-electrics interior unique in the world, air suspension etc), it will sell and restore the "Grosser Mercedes" history.

If not, well, too bad...

The frogs, good one!

M

I agree with your point that the Phantom is not elegant but I think you will find that the clientèle is still mostly business men .....a few rappers might own them, but I somehow don't think BMW are relying solely on the Hip Hop market .

Personally, I don't have a problem with Rolls' "Bling" image .....it doesn't do them any real harm, Rolls-Royce's have always been quite ostentatious. Bentley and Daimler (British Daimler) were considered more genuinely aristocratic. Rolls-Royce was what the self-made millionaires bought as a grand and obvious statement of their success.

IMO, killing Maybach is like DCX accepting their defeat, and i don't see why they should make such a move...

There's really not enough rappers in the pay grade (although their videos would make you think otherwise) to drive any substantial business for RR. I think if you had the chance to gazed down Rolls' list of clientele you'll find that it's mostly the status quo megarich who are buying those thing.

Interesting - I was conversing with somebody who is very in the know yesterday about this whole situation, and he guessed that Maybach would continue on for another 10 years out of stubbornness... I don't see how that's in the cards, but who am I to second guess?

Yes sure I may have exagerate a bit...

What I wanted to say is that Rolls has for me lost all its magic.

A Phantom V is the perfection made car... This one (Phantom VII and not VI like some says) is an ersatz, a caricature of what a Rolls is. There is more in a Rolls that a giant grille... They are proud of their alu-structure and powerfull V12 motor... A real Rolls is not that.

"The motor is a problem, our engineers have resolved it".... "The power? suffisant"...

And not give all the details about the car like any other car on earth.

This one is not refined and elegant any more like the Rolls used to be untill the 60's. They were apart of the others, they were just... Rolls-Royce. Whereas the Mercedes were technically superior, but with less elegance and class. They were so British...

This one, no no. It'not as distinctive. It is a luxurious but inelegant car. Would I want to make a caricature...

I would say that this car is very German, not very British!!!