German Car Zone

The S400 HYBRID is more like Honda hybrids than Toyotas. The new Honda Insight, just introduced with a similar mild hybrid system as the S400 HYRBID, just became the best selling car in Japan, first time a hybrid achieved this. This type of hybrid system catches many of the benefits, while also being more cost effective.

Jalopnik - Honda Insight Hybrid Best-Selling Car In Japan - 2010 Honda Insight

^^ Well thing is, the MB didn't convince them much. It seems the hybrid package is better in the Lexus.

Also, the fact it is a full-hybrid vs a mild-hybrid is irrelevant, what counts is the end-result. The end result is that the hybrid systems is flawless and imperceptible on the Lexus, not so on the Merc it seems (from that test at least).

Is hybrid a good solution, that is another question. it however seems here that the Lexus has a better system than the Merc.
They say however, the Lexus is 20.000€ more expensive.

But that alone doesn't justify the Benz to be inferior in terms of refinement and power, given the not so enormous consumption advantage.

The price, and the fact it is unable to move on the electric alone (very funny it is) are also letdowns compared to the Lexus.

Lexus seems to stay at the top of the hybrid game.

However, payload capacity (largely ignored by the clients) and boot capacity are KO-criterias against the Lexus. However, didn't they announce some times ago they'll update their systems to save boot capacity, on GS and LS hybrid models?

The developers of the S400 HYRBID today received the prestigious Porsche Prize from the Technical University (TU) Wien.

Entwickler der Lithium-Ionen-Batterie für Automobile ausgezeichnet - ATZ online


27.05.2009 - Die Daimler AG erhielt heute. 27. Mai 2009, zusammen mit dem Systemlieferanten Continental AG den Professor-Ferdinand-Porsche-Preis. Damit zeichnet die Technische Universität Wien den ersten Großserieneinsatz der Lithium-Ionen Batterie aus. Die Serieneinführung im Mercedes-Benz S400 HYBRID stellt aus Sicht der Jury den Durchbruch für die neuen Energiespeicher im Automobil dar.

"Umweltverträgliche Mobilität nachhaltig zu sichern ist für uns als Automobilhersteller ein zentrales Anliegen", erklärt Prof. Dr. Herbert Kohler, Leiter der Direktion E-Drive und Future Mobility der Daimler AG sowie Umweltbevollmächtigter des Konzerns. "Der S 400 HYBRID mit Lithium-Ionen Batterie ist dabei für uns ein wichtiger Meilenstein. Wir freuen uns über die Anerkennung unseres Engagements und Know-hows durch die Verleihung dieses renommierten Preises der TU Wien."

Dipl.-Ing. Michael Keller, Leiter Entwicklung Batterie Systeme bei Continental: "Durch diese hochdotierte Auszeichnung sehen wir nicht nur unsere Entwicklungsarbeit gewürdigt, dies motiviert uns auch weiter aktiv die Entwicklung und Herstellung moderner Antriebstechnologien voranzutreiben, um nachhaltig den Verbrauch künftiger Fahrzeuge deutlich zu reduzieren und die CO2- Emissionen zu senken."

Mit dem Professor-Ferdinand-Porsche-Preis werden - in Erinnerung an Ferdinand Porsche, den Ingenieur und Ehrendoktor der Technischen Universität Wien - besonders begabte Ingenieure ausgezeichnet. Der mit 50.000 Euro dotierte Preis wurde 1976 von Louise Piëch, der Tochter von Professor FerdinandPorsche, gestiftet und wird seitdem im Zweijahresrhythmus verliehen. Das Preisgeld tragen je zur Hälfte die Porsche Holding, Salzburg, und die Porsche AG, Stuttgart. In diesem Jahr wird er bereits zum 16. Mal durch die TU Wien verliehen.

Die Lithium-Ionen-Batterien (Li-Ion) bieten im Vergleich zu derzeit noch in Hybridfahrzeugen verwendeten Technologien (Nickel-Metallhydrid) eine höhere Speicherdichte. Die Energiedichte liegt um 30 Prozent, die Leistungsdichte um 50 Prozent höher, und das bei kompakten Abmessungen. Die Batterie liefert die Energie, damit ein Elektromotor mit bis zu 19 kW den Verbrennungsmotor unterstützen kann und so etwa beim Beschleunigen oder Anfahren Kraftstoff spart. Aufgeladen wird die Batterie beim Bremsen oder im Schubbetrieb, wenn das Fahrzeug zum Beispiel vor einer roten Ampel ausrollt.

Here's the Continental press release, in English:

http://www.conti-online.com/generato...daimler_en.pdf

Daimler is still working on their version....

Humorous how all the anti-Lexus folks on here just can't stomach that a German magazine praised the Lexus much more than they did their beloved S-class.

The S-class is a great car, but come on, grow up and give the Lexus LS credit where it is due. Cawimmer, you really crack me up how you're trying to justify that S-class 'could-have/should-have/would-have' won by focusing on little things. We saw the other comparo where the Phaeton won over the LS because of trivial things like boot space, but here we have an honest comparo where the LS came up trumps.
Just accept the results guys... this was a comparo of 2 hybrids, and the LS won. Don't go on moaning that the S400 is only 'mild' hybrid, while the LS is a purpose-built hybrid.

What is amazing is that they found the LS to be more fun to drive...that really shows that they didn't like the S at all since the Lexus LS is predominantly a luxury cruiser, though that hybrid engine does provide very good torque, so in the end I guess it isn't much of a suprise that the S-class got beat in that department too.

Again, give credit where credit is due.

See that is the wonderful thing about the automotive cycle. Right now Lexus was favor again in this test sooo who does that directly affect - Mercedes-Benz Loyalist.

So here is the "good-news" there will be a BMW hybrid as well (which incorporates the technology that MB/BMW and GM worked on together). So sooner or later their will be a "Battle" between the Lexus and BMW. Who know who will win. Then again I would pay to see the Lexus win just to see if you would have the same response as you do now.

.....Moving right along

No matter who won this test..like all comparisons this is based solely on someone opinion. Toyota's Hybrid technology has been out along time and they have perfected it. Lexus LS600H serves the purpose of trying to take on the high end Mercedes-Benz yet, providing hyrbid technology.

Like Lexus, BMW will also pair it's hybrid system with a V8. I personally like MB's apporach because it focuses more on gas milage then performance, which is exactly what a Hybrid model should do. This is why Toyota paired the Prius with a 4 cylinder not a 6. Somewhere between the Prius and Lexus LS600h that concept was lost. The system on the LS is top-notch because of Toyota's research. On the other hand the engine it was paired with doesn't follow the ideology of how a hyrbid model should function.

The S400 hyrbid is not meant to be a "performer". MB has the S63 and S65 AMG for that. This is meant for those looking for a high end car provides luxury, but is good on gas and beneficial to the environment. Doesn't really need to be "fun to drive".

I respect Autobild for their work on this comparison, but does it make it the absolute truth. No.

Well to say that the LS is a better hybrid you really have to be smoking crack. Here's why: You'll never make any return on the amount of money you spend on buying the car in relation to the fuel savings. It's sort of like buying a Cadillac Escalade Hybrid - a HUGE joke. But if you want to stroke your newly imposed self-conscious-green-ego the Lexus may be an obvious choice. But let's not kid ourselves here... The Lexus is nothing more than shameful green marketing. To be fair, the Merc is perhaps guilty of this as well...

But the S is the best of both worlds, imo - no compromise in anything. This is the route other manufacturers should go when hybridizing their land yachts.

Well the fact it has less power does not justify a weird brakepedal feel, neitehr does it justify that the electric motor between engine and gearbox is not perfectly smooth all the time.

On the other hand, Autobild did say it's more fun only based on the hybrid tech. This test was solely on the drivetrain. Not on the suspensions, comfort, finish or anything else usually involved in a comparo.

It was only a hybrid-technology battle, and the Lexus proved to be more fun, more refined whereas the Benz only could score some consumption advantage.

So Autobild gave the win to Lexus, for the superior hybrid maestria the LS possess.

Payload and boot capacity should've been evoked though.

I think this is quite significant. I feel that pairing a hybrid system with a V8 is just plain and simple waste of technology. What BMW should have done is mating the acclaimed turbocharged I6 engine (latest N55 version) with the hybrid system that BMW and MB developed. That would have made much more sense, just like in the S400.