German Car Zone

LOL, I can imagine, if one of the criteria is the fuctionality of the cup holder! That's something MB and Lexus fans can fight over. Bimmer fans talk about engine of the year competition and stuff....you know, the things that actually matter

Now bimmer fans can talk about the SUV of the year, they may have tow candidates per year .

Sorry I couldn´t resist, I´m a bimmer fan angry with the axe of the CS

It's funny really, back when the Germans were doing terribly in the JD Power surveys most people here bashed JD Power. Now that MB especially is doing very well, JD Power surveys are suddenly a reliable source...

Well thing is... When MB had an average reliability, they performed bad in JD-surveys (all kinds of them).
Now it is established that MB's reliability is the best you can get today. Guess what? MB performs admirably in the surveys that deal with those recent MB, and still not so good on the surveys about older models...

So I guess they're not that bad are they? After all, it's the opinion of the client that matters in the end, and those surveys are just about it. Sure it's not God speaking, but thoses surveys can't be ignored.


Because at the end of the day, even Bimmer fans are angry when their Coke splashes on their suit because the cupholder didn't hold it correctly.

This is no surprise really. In this country a Mercedes was always a better built, higher quality, more reliable car than a BMW and especially an Audi, or Jaguar. The only time this changed is when they decided to sell their souls for volume during the Shremp years. Things are changing back to the way they were before regarding reliability now. The others have come a long way in build quality to the point where any differences have to be looked at model by model now. Audi pretty much sets the standard for build quality when you look at the whole lineup of these respctive brands, but Audis have traditionally had dismal reliability. BMWs were never known for their reliability, but their buyers didn't care because the sporty driving experience was second to none. Mercedes' qualities will always been luxury, comfort, quality, durability, safety and reliability, they'll never outsport a BMW. Look at the turn around in sales (until the market crashed), and this resurgence was based on a return to quality, not because they've gotten a tad bit sportier.

Cars like the first generation ML, W220, W203, C208, W210 and early W211 should have never ever had the problems they had. Above all else a Mercedes must be quality product, like a BMW has to be sportier product. IMO sticking to core values is what guarantees success.


M

This is true for a many except me...lol. Seriously though, the one I have issues with is Consumer Reports. I vowed that if they said the same old thing about the 2007 and 2008 model Benzes (which have improved in all the other "surveys") then I was finished with them and wouldn't give a rats arse what they said anymore. Then I stumbled across this on a Benz blog:

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked about Consumer Reports reliability ratings for Mercedes Benz, and had to explain away what they said and how they look at things. Well great news!!! In this month’s Consumer Reports, Mercedes Benz had 5 vehicles listed in the Newly Recommended Column. The E350, ML350, S550, SL and SLK. In previous years we got a black eye for putting out a product that wasn’t what it should be, and that is why we were rated so low. As I have continually told all my clients we, as a brand, have come full circle. So way to go Mercedes…keep up the great work.


Amazing. I'll have to check out this issue immediately. Consumer Reports was the last one giving Mercedes a "black eye" regarding quality and reliability.


M

I don't pay too much attention to JD Powers - sure it is an indication but since most, like this one, is just a measure of perceived quality and not quality per se it isnot that interesting. Audi used to be the masters of perceived quality - now the differences are smaller between the Germans.

I find it very strange that the C-class scored so much better, are'nt the cars the same in the US as here in Europe?

Well the one survey from JDP that does matter is the 3-year dependability survey. It has none of this "how you feel" or "how does appeal to you" stuff in it. It is the real deal and that is where Mercedes is still below average because the cars from 2005 weren't anything to write home about. It won't be until at least 2010 before Mercedes improves meaningfully in the JDP Dependability Survey.


M

I totally agree. That one is relevant if it is based on real things like how many times the car was in the shop for a fix and such.

I remember when Volvo released the 850 back in -92/-93 sometime. It was not long before the gearboxes started to break down. As a result Volvo begun exchanging the gearboxes when the cars were in for a normal service. Only they did not tell the customers as they were afraid this would have a huge impact on their reputation as a maker of quality vehicles.

I think these type of "under-the-cover" call-backs are more common than we are lead to believe.

Something like this:

FN Reliability Survey

FN50: BMW tops 881,000 vehicle reliability survey | Fleet News