German Car Zone

From what I read, its supensions are quite hard (no comfort bias) but the car is far from being as dynamic as the Beemer (no sport bias), you end up with a car that is neither very comfortable, nor very sporty. Steering feel is not that good, rear room is even smaller than in the Germans, the diesel is sub-par while the petrol is not the most fabulous you can find...

All of this, of course, is what I read. never tried the car.

The look of the car is very, very Toyota. Interior is good though.

I voted 'None' because in the categories specified in the poll I do not believe that they are strongest. Lack of engine choice is often cited by many as a limiting factor. However their reliability is generally considered to be first rate and - in the UK at least - their dealer service and support is second to none. One could argue that it's easy to maintain this when you're only selling 25% as many cars as your competitors, but credit where credit's due.

I have not voted because I really think it depends on what parameters you use to judge it.

I interpreted the question as which segment is Lexus's strongest, not if the Lexus is actually stronger than the Germans in any of the 3 segments. If it is latter, my answer would also probably be none.

My friend owns a IS 300 and I am usually the designated driver every time he is drunk - which is more than few times. It's suspension is not hard, but then again I am used to my M3. The steering feel is about par with a 328 with out sports pack and much better than previous C. I have not driven the new C or the new A4 to judge it, but I doubt the IS is much worse. The engine in the 300 is very good and the numbers speak for themselves. I have no idea about the diesel ones, we don't get them here. In short, I would not write it off just cause it doesn't sell as well in Europe.

i voted for none..

I think the strongest lexus product is that ugly ass RX 400h

I'll be honest here, I don't like Lexus at all and there are many reasons for this. For one, I feel that they're incredibly overrated and their lack of heritage and history to me means they're not a real prestige brand in the sense of their European competitors. Call me old-school but all European and American luxury brands have a lot of heritage and this is how they earned their prestige and made a name for themselves.

But, I do respect them as a competitor and since they're very good cars, they're making the Germans work harder - which is good for the consumer and only means a better end result for the product in the end. At the same time most reviews state that while Lexus cars are good, they're often not as well rounded as their European competitors. But, they're cars that appeal to the luxury masses. Masses who just want a well-equipped premium car and couldn't care less if it didn't handle that well etc.

No doubt, the strongest Lexus cars are the IS and LS in my opinion. Below are my thoughts on some selected cars from their lineup.


IS: A very strong contender in its class. Most reviews have praised the driving dynamics and overall character of the car. From personal experience I'd say the biggest drawbacks of the IS are an incredibly small cabin. I am 6'4" and when I checked out the IS250 at a German Taste of Lexus event a few years ago I was appalled at the lack of comfortable space - even with the drivers seat pushed all the way back, I could not find a comfortable seating position. The transmission tunnel is also very wide and takes up precious leg and foot space.



GS: Supposedly, the GS has the biggest interior space volume in its class. Well, that means nothing because obviously Lexus did a poor job of making it work properly. The GS feels cramped and small on the inside. Thick doors and a huge transmission tunnel take up precious interior space. As a result, cars with less interior volume space feel larger on the inside - like the Mercedes E-Class for example. Add to that the GS is neither particularly comfortable and sporty and you end up with a car looking for a mission.

One of the most overrated Lexus currently in existence. The GS450h is nothing but marketing hype, because it will only achieve good fuel economy results in city driving, but not really in mixed driving. Add to that that most Americans are not schooled in the art of economical driving and you'll end up having a lot of consumers that are wondering why their "fuel efficient" GS450h doesn't get good gas mileage. The interior is very nice though and actually is one of the most elegant and well-made interiors from the brand in my opinion. It also looks very simplistic and classy. In all honestly, get a Mercedes E-Class, an Audi A6, a BMW 5-Series or now a Jaguar XF over this thing.



ES: I know too little about this car to make some thoughtful comments but I am wondering what the Japanese obsession is with overpowered front-wheel-drive luxury sedans...



LS: The best Lexus currently on the market and a solid alternative to the German competition. There are a few things I personally don't like about it and these are purely subjective. My biggest problem is with the interior: it looks tacky and not as "expensive" as those of the German competition. For example, the interior of the LS rear doors looks outright cheap and bland compared to that of the Mercedes S-Class. Little thought appears to have been given to designing something aesthetically pleasing here. The dashboard of the LS also looks very busy and lacks what I call "simplistic elegance", something which the German and British competition have.

LS


S-Class


Nevertheless, the LS460 is the most competitive Lexus hands down and continues the tradition of being the best Lexus. Great value (no competition here), many gizmos and features that are standard and lots of interior space are solid strongpoints of the LS. Add to that a very good engine in terms of refinement and performance and that completes the package. The LS460 is the car I think of when I think "Lexus".

The LS I absolutely cannot stand is the LS600h. The people who buy this overweight and overpowered marketing tool must be complete morons if they think they're being "green". There is nothing, absolutely nothing green about an overweight and overpowered fullsize luxury sedan. I don't care if the LS600h is a ULEV vehicle, that doesn't make it green. The car also fails to deliver on the promised performance and fuel economy figures that Lexus claims it is capable off. Maybe Lexus thought they could sell this overrated wonder product by making it appear "green" in comparison to the "evil and thirsty" German competition. "Hey! If we say the LS600h competes with the S600, A8 W12 etc. it will appear green and the environmentally conscious choice and people will flock to our dealerships! Let's do that!" Lexus marketing at its finest. The worst part is that the LS600h is not suitable for long journeys with more than three people because of its pathetic, almost embarrassing payload capacity. Thankfully you can always rent some cars that are going to carry your luggage to follow you in your LS600h. Oh thank you Lord!

What Lexus needs here is an LS diesel, especially for Europe. And not a V8 diesel, but a V6 diesel.



SC430: A complete joke. The early 1990s Toyota Soarer (Lexus SC300 and SC400) had style (Japanese elegance) and visual character. The SC430 had none of those things. Even when new, the SC430 was not very competitive against its main rivals, the Mercedes SL500 and Jaguar XK8. The fact that Lexus offered little variety here (like an SC600 for example with a V12) kind of tells me they were never very serious about this market. The fact that the SC430 looks like it was designed overnight (Lexus boss to designer: "We need something to compete with the SL and XK8, design it and have it on my desk tomorrow morning!") doesn't help either. It lacks classiness and sporty lines. Overall, a very dull, not quite comfortable and not very sporty car. Another Lexus looking for a mission. The interior was also pretty overrated in my opinion. I am glad they decided to ax it. By the way, where's the front and rear on this thing?



RX: This is a car that sold on being "hip" and "in" in my opinion. You wake one morning, go outside and see that two of your neighbors have bought one. What do you do? That's right, head down to your Lexus dealer and order one too because it's "hip" and "in" to drive one of these things! You don't know why you like it, but you just like it because everyone drives one! Welcome to the club! Yay!

First off, I never liked the design of the original RX and the facelifted version. It was a mumbled and jumbled throw-together of so many styling elements that just didn't fit together. There are a few of them here in Mühldorf and when I see them in my rear view mirror, I cringe at their ugliness and lack of balanced or pleasing design. Second, what's so cool about this car? It looks like a toad in my opinion, it can't tow anything because like most Lexus its payload capacity is so little and it can't even perform well off-road (and its AWD system is outdated from what I've read). No wonder most of these are driven by women and teenage girls who love the speaking the word "Lexus" across their tongues hoping it will attract a male mating partner. Basically, it's a sedan that looks like an SUV. Notice I purposefully omitted the word "cool" before SUV, because the RX doesn't look cool to me.

The RX400h is the same story as the GS450h and LS600h. Good gas mileage in the city but the moment you do some mixed driving at speeds where the electric motor won't work, prepare to face reality - namely, "There's a sucker born everyday" and Lexus knew you were that sucker.

On the plus side, it's very reliable, good value and comfortable and...that's about it, I think. Oh, and it is still "hip" and "in"!





Lexus is a good brand but they're clearly not the Gods some people overhyped them to be. Lexus cars are far from perfect and all too often these imperfections are ignored by the media and consumers themselves. Lexus has done a good job in the marketing department making people believe they're perfect. It's working...

None. Lexus sux hard and bigtime.

btw, have you guys ever sat inside the new LS....??? I think the car looks quite nice from the outside, but the interior just made me laugh and think ***....at least 10 years away from the Germans, interior wise. An utter joke.

LOL Chris, your favourite topic

You know me, Rob.

This is how I think:

The older a brand, the more history and heritage, innovation and development, participation in motorsports and global appeal all determine how prestigeous a brand is. Mercedes-Benz and BMW and Jaguar and now Audi are all falling under this category.

Lexus is only a desirable brand in North America at the moment. Yes, there is interest in Europe, Russia and China but the European competition also has a very strong image and following in those markets and Lexus will have to do more than use their silly North American marketing campaigns in Europe to do well here. In fact, Lexus will generally always have a hard time here because Audi, BMW and Mercedes are so well established and create appealing products. Jaguar is coming back strongly too.

Lexus are good cars overall, but also incredibly overrated and unlike the European luxury brands, they have bought their "prestige" (What prestige? The early Lexus were glorified Toyotas and the RX is still a Toyota) through marketing (in many cases false marketing too). The European brands have earned their prestige and brand appeal through sheer hard work as is showcased by their long and glorious histories.

I hope you can see why I can never accept Lexus as a prestige brand. A superior competitor yes, but a true prestige brand? Never.