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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 05:20 AM

Is this the M3 coupe or sedan they tested? My guess would be coupe because of the quicker 0-60 time.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 05:23 AM

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Originally Posted by cawimmer430 View Post
Is this the M3 coupe or sedan they tested? My guess would be coupe because of the quicker 0-60 time.
E90 is sedan... E92 is coupe.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 05:25 AM

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Originally Posted by cawimmer430 View Post
Is this the M3 coupe or sedan they tested? My guess would be coupe because of the quicker 0-60 time.
As my headline says its E90 = 4 -door

the car is red (I think its the same Edmunds tested)..
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 08:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Guibo View Post
Even if the time difference were 4-5 seconds, I still find that a very impressive effort by Lexus.
a golf GTI is probably 4-5 seconds slower than the M3. that wouldnt be very impressive.

because I think the M3 4 door is ass ugly, I would pick the ISF, but M3 coupe ownz!
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 08:14 PM

I think if the IS-F were offered in a manual it would actually steal alot of E90 M3 sales. The biggest downside on the IS-F seems to be the tranny.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 08:37 PM

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Originally Posted by lambornima View Post
a golf GTI is probably 4-5 seconds slower than the M3. that wouldnt be very impressive.

because I think the M3 4 door is ass ugly, I would pick the ISF, but M3 coupe ownz!

There have been couple of tests where C63 and (at least 1 where IS F) was 3-5 secs off M3.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 03-31-2008, 09:27 PM

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Originally Posted by lambornima View Post
a golf GTI is probably 4-5 seconds slower than the M3. that wouldnt be very impressive.
A Golf GTI is more realistically about 8+ seconds off the pace of the M3.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 04-01-2008, 02:38 AM

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The Lexus does quite well in the subjective categories of handling, steering, ride, and brake feel (at odds with the text). Matches the M3 in some and trails by only a point in others.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 04-01-2008, 02:52 AM

M3 DCT. Its great that bmw offfer both a manual and DCT gearbox. I wonder where those DCT reviews are, taking too long to read about it.
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Re: Car&Driver: IS-F vs M3 E90 - 04-03-2008, 02:24 AM

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Sedans That Sizzle: Can a hotted-up izzy avoid being fried by the bavarian freight train?


“Competition,” said John D. Rockefeller, the founder of Standard Oil and an early poster child of the business monopoly, “is a sin.”

He’d certainly be horrified by the competition going on these days among the makers of sports sedans. To many, these are the jewels of the high-performance market, and yet they seat at least four and don’t require fortunes associated with Google stock.

Although the genre is deliciously broad, we’ll concentrate here on two cars: the cat’s meow of sports sedans, the BMW M3, and a newcomer from Lexus, the IS F. This fourth generation of the BMW M3 debuted last fall and is available as a two-door coupe, a four-door, and, coming soon, a convertible. Last December we pitted the new M3 coupe against the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG and Audi RS 4 [“Gluttons for Punishment”], and the result was a rout for the Bimmer. Neither the Lexus, which only comes as a sedan, nor the four-door M3, was available for that test, so this duel was a given.

The IS F and the M3 cover the same basic formula, which is a lot like the muscle-car recipe from a bygone era. Start with a small, lightweight car, and stuff in a honking engine. The difference now is that these modern-day muscle cars complement those monster motors with sharp suspensions and plenty of luxury features. They’re not exorbitantly priced, but neither are they cheap. Both have base prices of about $56,000.

Let’s start with the M3. Based on the 17-time 10Best-winner 3-series, the latest M3 has twice the number of cylinders (eight) and, with 414 horsepower, more than twice the horsepower of the first M3 that debuted in 1988. Coupled to a standard six-speed manual transmission (a twin-clutch automated manual will be available this summer), the M3’s V-8 revs to an almost unheard-of 8400 rpm. Additionally, there are larger brakes, a firmer suspension, and enough body modifications to let the world know you’re in something special. Our test car came stuffed with options—adjustable shocks, steering assist, nav, heated seats, and various other bits—that swelled the as-tested price to $64,450.

Meanwhile, the Lexus IS F looks similarly capable on paper. It’s Lexus’s first über-version of the capable IS sedan, and the company has not scrimped. In the engine bay resides a 416-hp, 5.0-liter V-8 that has a significant torque advantage over the BMW (371 pound-feet versus 295). An eight-speed automatic transmission—it’s the only one available—sends power to the rear wheels. We initially lamented the absence of a manual box, but Lexus has souped up the automatic so that in the manumatic mode it shifts in 0.1 second, Lexus claims. The suspension was lowered and stiffened, six-piston front-brake calipers pinch larger 14.2-inch rotors, and 19-inch forged aluminum wheels fill wider fenders and wheel arches. Our test car came with one option, a $3990 Mark Levinson sound system and navigation package that bumped the as-tested price to $60,755.

These sedans are serious performance cars and as such require some room to wring them out. We spent a day lapping Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca’s 2.2-mile road course in Monterey, California. There, we sucked in our guts while plunging the cars down Laguna’s famous Corkscrew, a left-right combination that has a devilishly blind approach and exit. Get it wrong, and you’re in the wall.

We later ran through plenty of twisties, highway slogs, and our usual performance tests. In short, we indulged like automotive robber barons. And, yes, we loved every minute of it.

It was the fine points that cost the Lexus, the small details that separate the great from the incredibly great. For example, the engine is outstanding, but it doesn’t deliver the low-end grunt its specs promise. With 371 pound-feet of torque it should be gutsier than the BMW, but peak twist occurs way up at 5200 rpm, just 1600 short of the redline. At Laguna, despite its 25-percent-larger engine, the IS F didn’t rocket out of low-speed corners the way we expected it to.

To prove our seat-of-the-pants impressions of both cars, we did a special rolling acceleration test in which we ran them, at full throttle, from 30 to 70 mph in third gear. The times were about identical.

Since the Lexus V-8 is larger and doesn’t rev as high as the BMW’s, we can’t explain this equality, especially since the Lexus’s torque curve is fairly flat and there are 300 pound-feet of torque on tap at 3000 rpm. Part of the problem is the IS F’s weight, which at 3780 pounds is 100 pounds heavier than the M3, but still, it should pull harder than the BMW down low.

On the racetrack, we worked the IS F’s manumatic transmission to keep the engine above 3800 rpm, which was satisfying and painless. Toggling the right-side aluminum steering-wheel paddle produces a kick-in-the-crotch shift that’s quicker than we could ever achieve with hand and foot. Downshifts are actuated via the left paddle, and the computer blips the throttle for a racy, seamless feel. The gear lever can be set to shift itself, and we rated this automatic on par with the M3’s manual unit, which is the first time we can remember heaping such praise on a slushbox. It’s that good.

It’s hard to argue with what this powertrain can produce. It brushes past 60 mph in 4.4 seconds, clears the quarter in 12.8 seconds at 114 mph, and runs briskly to a governed top speed of 172 mph. That’s Porsche 911 territory. But at times the eight ratios felt like too many, and in the twisties, we frequently found ourselves glancing at the gear indicator in the gauge cluster to discern which cog we were in.

The brake modulation could be better. Stopping distances from 70 mph are stellar—166 feet—but on track and road, the brakes have an on/off digital feel. It was tough to ease off the brakes as we steered the IS F into corners. They’re by no means awful, but this is a shortcoming the Lexus has and the M3 doesn’t.

The IS F’s handling, however, is hard to fault. There’s a confidence to the chassis that inspires the driver to push it up to, and sometimes over, the limit. Lateral grip is good at 0.92 g, but on the track we found ourselves entering corners faster than the tires could handle, an indication of the bravery the Lexus’s stability encourages. Coming out of corners, the IS F could use a mechanical limited-slip differential because the inside wheel has a tendency to spin when accelerating hard. Lexus relies on the stability-and-traction-control systems to counter that trait, but it’s too intrusive for track use, so we shut if off.

On twisty, lumpy Carmel Valley Road, precipitous drop-offs and the instinct for self-preservation meant we left the driver aids engaged. There the systems proved less bothersome than on the track, and we enjoyed the IS F’s electrically assisted steering and taut suspension but again wished for better brake modulation. Although the Lexus can feel at times a bit stiff in the knees, the bumps did little to upset the chassis. Both cars were astonishingly good on this 30-mile stretch and effortlessly soaked up the bumps while clearly communicating the wavy pavement to the driver.

In a few areas, the Lexus excelled. It’s quieter at 70 mph, the relationship between the driver’s seat and the controls is about perfect, and it scored points for not having BMW’s infuriating iDrive.

We’d never kick this car out of our garage, and for a first swing, it’s impressive, but there’s a better choice.

In case anyone has forgotten that the “M” in BMW stands for “motor,” let the M3’s stunning V-8 be your reminder. This is a fantastic engine that surpasses expectations.

“The engine’s power band is amazing,” wrote Csere in the logbook. The 414-hp peak occurs at a lofty 8300 rpm, and that suggests a fussy, peaky mill that requires constant gearbox rowing to keep it on the boil. But it’s just the opposite. The torque peak of 295 pound-feet comes at 3900 rpm, and excellent thrust is available from there to the 8400-rpm rev cutoff.

The magic gear for this car is third; it’s the right ratio almost everywhere. Around Laguna’s 2.2 miles and 11 turns, we shifted only four times: once into second gear for Turn Eleven, up to fourth on the front straight, then back to third for Turn Two, where it remained for the rest of the lap. There were a few places where we might have geared down to second, but the result would have been a greater chance for wheelspin and little if any speed difference.

The M3 blasted to 60 in 4.1 seconds, 0.3 second quicker than the Lexus and 0.1 quicker than the M3 coupe we tested last December, a surprising outcome since this sedan, which is not available with the coupe’s carbon-fiber roof, was 109 pounds heavier.

Of course, the M3 is not just an engine. There’s a chassis that’s just as marvelous. Our car had adjustable shocks that offer three settings: comfort, normal, and sport. In sport mode, they remain at a fixed stiff setting; they adjust on the fly in the two others. On the recommendation of the M3 project manager, Bernd Limmer, we left the shocks in normal because, when selected, the computer reacts to various inputs from steering-wheel angle and wheel-speed sensors and might stiffen the shocks to an even greater degree than the sport mode would. The only time we noticed a difference was when we switched to sport on public roads and the normally firm ride became downright uncomfortable.

On the track, the M3 is decidedly livelier than the Lexus, more flickable yet every bit a confidence builder. One can seemingly plant this car anywhere, thanks to progressive brakes and steering that’s a benchmark of feel.

The steering effort has two modes: sport and normal. Sport increases the effort slightly and offers no performance benefit—it’s a matter of personal preference.

Electronics, it seems, are taking over this driver’s car, but that’s not all bad, particularly when it comes to the stability-control system. Again, there are three modes (on, M Dynamic, and off), but what’s noteworthy is how transparently this system operates. In M Dynamic, it reacts subtly and recovers quickly, adjusting the car’s trajectory almost imperceptibly. It’s an ally on challenging roads, and we turned it off only during testing.

In every performance test of note, the M3 outgunned the Lexus, yet it didn’t trail in refinement or comfort. The BMW’s suspension, like the Lexus’s, will never be accused of pampering its driver, but it absorbed every bump without upsetting the chassis.

The only way to get the adjustable shocks is to opt for the $3250 Technology package, which includes iDrive and its usual frustrations. The menu structure is cumbersome, and it’s sometimes at odds with the dash buttons. For example, use iDrive to switch stability control off, and the system still operates. A press of a button is required to turn the system off.

Maybe BMW hasn’t gotten this generation of iDrive right, but the rest of the car has no equal among many peers.



First Place - 2008 BMW M3

Highs: V-8 pulls strongly down low and up to 8400 rpm, stability control that we can live with.

Lows: iDrive remains friendless.

The Verdict: The benchmark of sports sedans.


Second Place - 2008 Lexus IS F

Highs: Bellowing engine note, lightning shifts, power for all but the truly demented.

Lows: Brakes that don’t know when to take it easy, gear overload.

The Verdict: Compared with a normal car it’s amazing, but it happens to run with a tough crowd.



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