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M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

This is a discussion on M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No within the Internal Combustion forums, part of the Website Forums category; Originally Posted by HighestOfHigh Yes, that is Cadillac wish list, but they have the STS to compete with the E ...

View Poll Results: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V German Killer? Yes or No
2009 Cadillac CTS-V 550HP kills the Germans 7 5.51%
BMW M3 still rules 65 51.18%
Benz C63 AMG is the best 47 37.01%
I'd rather the Audi S5 8 6.30%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-10-2008, 06:54 AM   #21
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

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Originally Posted by HighestOfHigh View Post
Yes, that is Cadillac wish list, but they have the STS to compete with the E and 5. And the DTS as a supposed S and 7 competitor. CTS is really G35, C, 3 and IS territory.
The Cadillac to be compared with the 3-series and the C-class is the BLS. The BLS is about the same size (L: 4680 mm, W: 1750 mm) as both the E90 (L: 4520mm, W: 1870 mm) and the W204 (L: 4582 mm, W: 1770 mm).

So if size is a base for comaprision then it is the BLS that should be used.
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Old 01-10-2008, 06:54 AM   #22
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

The answer?
No one knows.
So line them up and see how they compare (but don't let the Germans do it).
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Old 01-10-2008, 06:56 AM   #23
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

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Originally Posted by BarneyBoy View Post
The answer?
No one knows.
So line them up and see how they compare (but don't let the Germans do it).
Haha, that was funny. So who should do the comparison? Ze Amärikaans?
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:11 AM   #24
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

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Originally Posted by HighestOfHigh View Post
Actually, the STS and DTS have not been dropped. The STS is actually very much new and it is relatively the same size as the E and 5. The CTS is the entry level sedan, yes it's larger then the entry level Germans, but it is in the same segment. The DTS is in the large luxury size segment like the town car. Yes, it lacks the technology and a few other things, but they are competitors size wise to the 7 and S.
As verified by bmer, the STS and DTS will be replaced. I never said they were already dropped.
STS is much closer to the 7 than the 5 in terms of length and wheelbase. It is 5.7 inches longer than the E (and only 0.7 inch shorter than the 7), with a wheelbase about 3-4 inches longer than the 5 and E (and only 0.7 inch shorter than the 7). This tells us the STS need not be compared to the 5/E exclusively.
Likewise, there's no reason to compare the CTS exclusively to the entry level Germans. In fact, look at the following reviews. All of them indicate the CTS is aimed at the mid-level Germans (5/E/A6), not the entry ones:
Cadillac CTS 3.6 V6 - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk
Cadillac CTS (2008 onwards model)Â*-Â*First Drives | Reviews | MSN Cars UK
Cadillac CTS first drives - Fifth Gear
Road test: Cadillac CTS - Independent Online Edition > Road Tests
Cadillac CTS 3.6 V6
DTS and Lincoln Town Car are hardly competitors to the 7 and S in any meaningful way. There's a lot of things involved in "a few other things," namely the intended purpose to compete. That is far more significant a factor than just the size, and manifests itself in price (just about half what an S Class costs) and execution (think late '90s Buick Park Avenue, not modern BMW/MB/Audi). Size-wise, the Town Car covers much more real estate than the S Class. Nearly as much as the Maybach 57. But in no way are these competitors.
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:12 AM   #25
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

Well the M3 will be faster around any track,C63 has much more class and sex appeal IMO.

C63 all the way followed by the M3.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:08 AM   #26
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

Ha! That's the Tarek I remember! Actually though, one mustn't be too subjective when it comes to these things. Take my subjective opinion on this for example.

a) The M3 is a coupe and coupes invariably look more classy and elegant than a sedan
b) The M3 is the more cohesively styled of the two, in my opinion its smooth, flowing body kit looks better integrated compared with the bolt-on, on go faster kit on the C63
c) The C63's wheels look too small in certain shots
d) The M3 doesn't look like it was dropped by some downtown suspension "specialist".

Of course, I'm manipulating certain criteria to my own subjective devices.

The big concern for me these days isn't how much power a car pushes out at the top-end of its rev-range but how much torque two little pieces of rubber - the combined total equivalent of an A4 piece of paper (at best!) in surface area - have to deal with. The C63's torque output is prodigious and it does an amazing job of putting such forces down to the tarmac. But as the recent assessment in EVO shows, the C63 is ultimately slightly lacking in its ability to deal with the full dollop of twist force at the wheels under hard cornering.

750 Nm in a CTS-V? Given all of the talk from GM's side about sophisticated torque managment systems (anyone recall the Mazda 3 MPS?) I can bet that the traction control software will aggressively limit the amount of torque reaching the rear wheels upon acceleration and, in particular, cornering on the throttle.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:14 AM   #27
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

Tarek? The old GCF member??? Or i'm missing something...

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Old 01-10-2008, 08:24 AM   #28
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

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Tarek? The old GCF member??? Or i'm missing something...

It appears to be! He introduces himself elsewhere on this forum. I'll look for the thread...

Edit: Here - look at the last page of the Top Gear M3vsRS4vsC63 thread.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:27 AM   #29
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

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Originally Posted by BarneyBoy View Post
The answer?
No one knows.
So line them up and see how they compare (but don't let the Germans do it).
Let the Chinese dudes do it and not the yankies.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:50 AM   #30
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Re: M3 & C63 AMG Killer? Yes or No

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Originally Posted by Guibo View Post
As verified by bmer, the STS and DTS will be replaced. I never said they were already dropped.
STS is much closer to the 7 than the 5 in terms of length and wheelbase. It is 5.7 inches longer than the E (and only 0.7 inch shorter than the 7), with a wheelbase about 3-4 inches longer than the 5 and E (and only 0.7 inch shorter than the 7). This tells us the STS need not be compared to the 5/E exclusively.
Likewise, there's no reason to compare the CTS exclusively to the entry level Germans. In fact, look at the following reviews. All of them indicate the CTS is aimed at the mid-level Germans (5/E/A6), not the entry ones:
Cadillac CTS 3.6 V6 - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk
Cadillac CTS (2008 onwards model)Â*-Â*First Drives | Reviews | MSN Cars UK
Cadillac CTS first drives - Fifth Gear
Road test: Cadillac CTS - Independent Online Edition > Road Tests
Cadillac CTS 3.6 V6
DTS and Lincoln Town Car are hardly competitors to the 7 and S in any meaningful way. There's a lot of things involved in "a few other things," namely the intended purpose to compete. That is far more significant a factor than just the size, and manifests itself in price (just about half what an S Class costs) and execution (think late '90s Buick Park Avenue, not modern BMW/MB/Audi). Size-wise, the Town Car covers much more real estate than the S Class. Nearly as much as the Maybach 57. But in no way are these competitors.

Lol...I don't think you understood anything I said. Don't even worry about it.
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