German Car Zone

The 3er might be old, but it is a very good car.

So basically this tells you that the cars are so damn close, you might as well buy what you like? Like we didn't see that coming. LOL.

Sunny, feeling very anti-MB today?......LOL

Anyways, the E90 is not that old, although the 335i is certainly quite the performance car for the money.

Take a look at this older Autobild test, comparing the then brand new E90 330i vs the "old" facelifted W203 C350 and B7 A4 3.2. The "state of the art" 330i loses to the "old" C350 in almost every category. The Audi A4 takes the overall victory because of price. Maybe autobild always dislikes the "newer" car in their comparison tests.......LOL

http://www.germancarzone.com/interna...-330-c350.html (Autobild: Sport sedan test (A4 3.2fsi, 330, C350))

My point is that the 3 series, A4, and C-class are all competent cars. Every car enthusiast and car reviewer will have their own bias as to which car they think is the best. Even if you look at pure performance alone (like the Sport Auto Supertest scores), the E46 M3 doesn't "kill" the W203 C55........it wins by a total of 2 points overall (44 vs 42 out of a total of 70 points maximum).

if you consider C32 which existed at the time when M3 came to the market the difference in points are larger. Unlike C AMG the M3 didnt need a complete makeover a couple of years later to match the competiton I believe the S4 stayed the same during it time too.

OK, I don't want to take this thread completely off topic, so here is my only response to the above: if you disagree with me, let's take it to PM.

In my opinion, MB screwed up with the pre-facelifted W203 C-class. They tuned the suspension too soft, and the steering too light. Even AMG didn't do a very a good job with the C32 in terms of suspension tuning and handling, as it paled in comparison to the E46 M3. Back then, my guess was that they didn't want to build a direct M3 competitor.......they wanted to build a more comfortable alternative (in line with MB philosophy?).

The facelifted W203 C-class is what MB should have done to begin with. Rememeber, this is NOT a brand new chassis or body. The more direct steering and better suspsnsion tuning of the "facelifted" W203 showed what the W203 chassis is really capable of (which is what the C55 is based on, along with further massaging from AMG). The poor handling impressions people got from the early W203's were hard to change, even though the facelifted cars were significantly better in every way (handling, steering). And to make matters worse for MB, BMW soon came out with the brilliant E90 chassis, which is even better than the E46.

You're incorrect that the facelifted C55 was a complete "makeover" from the C32. They are based on the same body and chassis. Straight line acceleration were almost identical between the two. What MB/AMG did was retune the suspension and steering, and it made a HUGE difference in terms of handling. This was not a brand new body/chassis, like going from W203 to W204, or E46 to E90.

Think about it this way, late in the E46 M3's life cycle, BMW M came out with the M3 CS (Competition Package in North America). This is the same E46 chassis, but with tweaks to the brakes, suspension, steering, DSC, etc. Would you consider the M3 CS to be a complete makeover? Even with these tweaks, the M3 CS still does not blow the C55 away.

Bottom line: BMW got it right the first time with the briiliant E46 M3. MB tried to catch up with the facelifted C55 with more aggressive suspension/steering, but it was too late to the party, as the pre-facelifted C32 made its negative impressions too deeply. The fact that they looked almost the same also didn't help.

Now I just hope that they get it right with the W204......don't wait for the facelift to bring out your best product!! But to be honest, I have a feeling that the more things change, the more they will stay the same......The C63 will be very close in performance to the E92 M3 objectively, but will lose out to the M3 in the subjective "fun to drive" category. Overall winner: M3......

Nice post, PC!

I think MB did right this time and will be the overall winner in comparison with M3.

Regarding M3 CS, I wouldnt mind seeing another supertest with the M3 CS in Sportauto , Im pretty certain both N-ring and Hockenheim laptime would be improved compared to "standard" M3. Particulary the N-ring laptime. Now I dont expect you to agree with me

PS, I said makeover and I dont mean a completly new car, my bad.

Viewing through the comments in this thread, I have to say something; since when was the E90 3er an "old" car?

That's ridiculous. The E90 is what, two years old? I don't even consider a vehicle built five years ago "old".

E90 came 2004 and W204 came 2007. Doesnt matter how much you turn it, E90 is older than W204 Calm down Bruce, its not the end of the world

E90 an old car?