German Car Zone

Well, a real old thread…but just found this while surfing the internet!! Quite entertaining to read, especially when they begin to discuss germancarzone.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-...4Motion-18138/

Wimmer will love this…

I strongly suspect that the majority of the forum members over there have their head firmly stuck inside their own bottom.

"Found this on www germancarzone com. I used carwimmer430's synopsis."


Who the hell is carwimmer430?

So let's just do a quick recap of this AMS test.
The Lexus LS460 outperforms the Phaeton when it comes to:

• Horsepower (no point complaining that the VW has a smaller engine, VAG has more than enough engine choices that the Phaeton could have received)
• Torque
• Better CO2 emissions (eventhough it has a more powerful engine)
• Longer wheelbase
• Faster acceleration all the way from 0-80km/h to 0-180km/h
• Better overall fuel consumption (better city and highway)
• Better value when equivalent options are included
• Outscores the VW in the Body/Chassis (Karosserie) department eventhough it has less trunk space

...and the deciding factors which AMS used to give the Phaeton the win was:
- Braking (which there was only a 1-2 meter difference between the cars at 100km/h, that's a marginal difference stopping from that speed)
- Handling (there was only a 2km/h difference between the two, which again is marginal when you're comparing uber-luxury vehicles. Such a difference would have more importance when comparing sportscar)
- Trunk space (fair enough, if Europeans put great importance on this when purchasing an uber-luxury car, then good research by VW. The rest of the world... well we just take a plane when going on long family journeys)

So I guess better acceleration, better fuel consumption, more legroom, better on the evironment, and better value for money when comparing apples to apples gets beaten by slightly better brakes, slightly better handling...and of course we can't forget, the bigger trunk. No suprise AMS had to pick on some marginal issues to give the German car the win, I'm sure their tester are as like-minded to some of you when you refer to the LS as a kitchen appliance. The sales success (or lack thereof) of the Phaeton speaks volumes of its offering in this segment.

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An objective person would say the LS beats the Phaeton in the catergories where it matters most..., but hey, you guys call the LS a kitchen appliance, I call it 'better than the Phaeton'.


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Errr... not sure what Avalon you're referring to Willy..

These two don't look alike at all... your biased against Toyota has blinded you (don't worry, you'll fit in here at GCZ just fine coz of that).






I'll admit the Phaeton looks better than the Avalon, but stating that it is adirect copy of the Phaeton... that's right up there with 'Kitchen appliance'.


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They must view the VW Phaeton in the same light that you view the Lexus LS. Ironic how you refer to them as 'stupid' and 'dumb' when they have exactly the same mindset as you do.

I agree with you on that one. I read the article (well the availabkle part of it), and kept reading that the lexus was more powerful, more comfortable, less thirsty, more this and this.

And suddenly you have two lines at the end stating that brake and handling cost the Lexus its first place.... Looks like they made the test, and then realized the Lexus was about to win, so they quicky found some faults to justify its second place.

The Lexus clearly won that test for me (even if I personally prefer the Phaeton).

Thank you very much Raoul.

That's the kind of objectivity that is so hard to find in some of the members. Yeah sure you may like the Phaeton more (honestly, if I had to choose one, I'd probably go for the Phaeton too coz it looks a little nicer), but objectively (ie: without bias or personal preference) the LS460 is the better car when you look at the comparison in this magazine.

I'm not too fussed about the magazine giving the Phaeton the win because mass riots would break-out if the German mag' gave the Japanese car first place -- no suprise there, they have to give their readers what they want to hear/read. But irks me is the complete blinding-bias that many members here have against Toyota/Lexus. The comparison posted in this thread clearly shows the Lexus out-classes the VW in many categories, and most importantly, does so in the most critical categories....but to hear comments such as 'kitchen appliance' shows a complete disregard and unappreciation for the Lexus. Again, yeah sure you may like German cars more, and you may think anything Japanese or American is below you, but that shouldn't stop you from at least being somewhat objective and realising that the LS is a very good car in its own right, and appreciting that Toyota/Lexus can make some very good cars (even if the German's still do it better).

How does someone who's so narrow-minded and stubborn to refer to the Lexus LS460 as a 'kitchen appliance' even get the money to purchase a used-Phaeton ? .... similar question to the one posted earlier about rich folks being dumb in spending so much on a Bentley.

Don't care for either one, but I would probably go with the Lexus.