German Car Zone

Yea, I think dark color might work a little better. I so wish Porsche didn't mess up that rear though. I understand trying to display the same "culture" design as the rest of the porsche, but a regular sedan rear would have made the car fantastic. The interior and front design make this car a star, but the rear....

Question for anyone who has a substantial knowledge about car structures - Would this car weight less with a standard rear end? Or does this car benefit weight wise with this type of rear?

I'll have to see it IRL to judge but that last picture in white is concerning. I heard it was pretty big but yikes, those comparison pictures really are telling.

Regarding your question, I think one needs a background in mechanisms, materials and structures in general to give you an informed opininion (mechanical engineering discipline for instance). If you are interested in the aforementioned, my opinion would be the panny rear-end design would have a weight savings potential over a standard rear (but it might not be substantially so) given similar materials. Consider the side profiles of the two versions, how does the roofline get to the rear. The panny has a gentle arc (which is much closer to a staight line) compared to a standard trunk profile so the transition will require less material to cover the distance. The arc also has inherent strength benefits as well.

Wagons and Fastbacks are invariably heavier than their saloon counterparts. They have more sheetmetal and there is additional structural material for the rear pillars and rear opening in order to retain torsional rigidity. The tailgate plus related equipment (bigger gas struts, rear roll-over screen, split-window (not featured on the Panamera) and rear wiper and motor mechanism all contribute to a heavier rear end than on a saloon.

Edit: For comparison purposes an M5 Touring is 100 kg heavier than its saloon counterpart and an S6 Avant 80 kg heavier than its four door cousin. The rules that apply to a wagon apply to a fastback mainly because of the need to retain structural rigidity at the rear which is significantly compromised by a big-opening tailgate.

Agree for wagons, but I think this is a different animal.

Do we have any Porsche insiders on the forum or do we know of any literature that references the weight of the Panamera's rear?

The Panemera still looks lighter in the upper rear section than a standard
boot to me. I also can't imagine that the decision makers at Porsche would have paid a weight penalty to implement such a polarizing feature....but I could be very wrong.

I can assure you - regardless of the sloping shape: the Panamera's rear is as heavy as that of a wagon. It's the weight penalties that are incurred by the very nature of a large, heavy tailgate and the structural reinforcing around this.

Consider just the bootlid of a car: it's obviously much lighter than a glass-housing, bigger tailgate.

I've opened and closed the Panamera's tailgate a number of times without using the powerlift/close function and it's a heavy mother. Compounded with this weight is the shape of the rear opening - a big rectangle set at an angle: one of the weakest stuctures for maintaining "twist stiffness" or torsional rigidity. Because of this inherent lack of geometric strength, the rear opening has to be additionally reinforced with stronger, heavier metal.

This picture graphically conveys how much metal is located above and behind the rear axle of a Panamera. It's a wagon although it simply doesn't look like one.



Besides, rurella, what other frame of reference do we have? There is no Panamera sedan to compare back to.
All that we can use is the closest possible shape and that is of a wagon/fastback. And all the evidence out there points to this configuration being heavier for obvious reasons.

In order to support the concept of weight equality between a fastback and a wagon, all we simply need to do is compare the slopey-backed X6M with the wagon X5M. Both cars weigh exactly the same.

Therefore...

I was only able to find a reference to the heavy use of magnesium in the cradle for the rear greenhouse, but since you have first hand knowledge and given your obvious familiarity with these structures, you must be correct.

Given that I've become somewhat familiar with you rurella, I might ordinarily have thought you were being a touch caustic...

I've given you as much information as I can offer based on my experience when asked the question by customers why does a Legacy Wagon weigh more than the Sedan? I got much the same answer from the company's local technical director.

That's all I have to offer...

It was sincere for what it is worth martinbo.

Our UK distributor sent a scan of the magazine to our department in Munich.

The BMW won.

Guido.