German Car Zone

Thanks for explaining that Imhotep Evil ....you have a very good understanding of philosophy ...I must admit, I have only ever taken a casual interest in Nietsche.

As I have stated in the past, BMW has adopted a deconstructivist philosophy.

BMW are not doing anything revolutionary here ...I can think of numerous examples in architecture and design that do precisely the same thing.

The Italian designer Gaetano Pesce has incorporated these ideas into his work since the 1960s.

[really off topic]
Well I'm a student at a Communication and PR College.

I did study Nietzsche at the philoshpy of communication course.

Bibliography : Nietzsche among others.
Essay: Nietzsche.
Exam: Nietzche (critics of metaphysics).


And for the symbol part, historical imagology, one of the most horible courses
ever made.
~ 600 page manuals + compulsive to read, at least parts/bits of:

- Serge Moscovici, La Machine à faire les dieux;
- M. Eliade - Images and symbols; optional History of Religions;
- G. le Bon - The Psychology of Revolution;
- C.G. Jung - on archetype and collective unconscious;
- Gilbert Durand - Anthropological Structures of the Imaginary;
- Fernand Braudel - Grammar of Civilizations;
- optional Jack Trout and Al Ries on brand image;

And, if after this, if you don't go mad and pass the exam (witch I did, much to my surprise) you spend the rest of your life wonder how it was posible to do so.

So, I in case you want to find out more.

[end really off topic]


Now, back on topic.
Still the CL looks good, IMO.

Sorry for the headakes guys. Always a pleasure talking to you Roberto.

Let the excellent debate countinue here. I've moved all the relevant posts regarding this topic from CL thread to this one.

Eni, bring roberto, GTA and Marcus here if we are to continue.

Invitation sent!

Btw, I've already stated my opinion on this issue in theses two threads with almost identical topics:

1. http://www.germancarzone.com/showthread.php?t=3815 (Interior design: E Class / 5 Series / A6)

2. http://www.germancarzone.com/showthread.php?t=2927 (New Teutonic design language)

BMW is the design leder at presentimes and there are clear evidence that Bangle started something huge with his deisgn. Companies like Mercedes, Audi, Honda and Ferrari have followed the lead.

Roberto I think you nailed it pretty well. After reading a little bit about Gaetano Pesce, I can't help but wondering if he wasn't a mentor/idol figure for Bangle and Co. at BMW.

BMW=radical , groundbraking
Audi=evolutionary with respect to tradition

Big difference between the two.

First of all anyone can copy design features out of a BMW. Lexus has done that , Citroen and others but noone can copy design elements out of an Audi cause the design works as a whole and not partially.

If we want to see who makes the best designs we have to consider which of the German brands has designed cars that will be remembered years from now and will be considered as design icons and only Audi has achieved that in recent years with Audi TT Mk I and lately with Audi R8.

Yes, perhaps his actual designs have not influenced them directly (it looks like it comes from the apocalypse) ... but his ideas are very influential.

Also we should not neglect the significant influence of the French philosophers: Jacques Derrida and Jean-François Lyotard.

Other great thinkers in Italian design are Andrea Branzi, Ettore Sottsass, and Alessandro Mendini ....these men have influenced the entire world culture of design since the last quarter of the twentieth century.

In a time when computers were large, intimidating, boxes that took up entire rooms, Ettore Sottsass' Olivetti Elea 9003 computer from 1958 ...was designed to be "user-friendly". Sottsass designed the Elea 9003 to look "cute" almost like a childs toy -- an early example of "Human design" -- this was a very revolutionary and influential idea at the time.


This sideboard from 1981 is a further example of Sottsass' playful aesthetic ...it is anti-Modern design ....emotion over function.