BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies - Page 4

SDNR · **Re: In detail, New CL Class (Thread 6 Cont'd) -** 10-04-2006, 09:13 AM

Thanks for explaining that Imhotep Evil ....you have a very good understanding of philosophy ...I must admit, I have only ever taken a casual interest in Nietsche.

SDNR · **BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

That is a part of it but also:
* Head of Design for the BMW Group, who kicked-off 1999 saying that he wanted the 3 series to "have a face... to be a statement of beauty, like the Three Graces," progressively steered a reserved BMW toward increasingly 'human' design since taking over from Claus Luthe on October 1st, 1992.
* dimples, warmer curves and cuts dubbed "flame surfacing" have appeared along erstwhile uppity Bimmer bodywork with each progressive model revision;
* the athleticism of the 3 series' 'face' met the brooding 7 series, whose uppity look gave it a visual distance to match the weight of its price differential,
* and Bangle even experimented with the asymmetrical X Coupé Concept at the 2001 Detroit Auto Show, explaining that human beings were not symmetrical and therefore cars should not be, either.
* BMWs became not just part of family, but individual members with individual personalities.

As I have stated in the past, BMW has adopted a deconstructivist philosophy.

BMW are not doing anything revolutionary here ...I can think of numerous examples in architecture and design that do precisely the same thing.

The Italian designer Gaetano Pesce has incorporated these ideas into his work since the 1960s.

Imhotep Evil · 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

Thanks for explaining that Imhotep Evil ....you have a very good understanding of philosophy ...I must admit, I have only ever taken a casual interest in Nietsche.

[really off topic]
Well I'm a student at a Communication and PR College.

I did study Nietzsche at the philoshpy of communication course.

Bibliography : Nietzsche among others.

Essay: Nietzsche.

Exam: Nietzche (critics of metaphysics).

And for the symbol part, historical imagology, one of the most horible courses
ever made.
~ 600 page manuals + compulsive to read, at least parts/bits of:

- Serge Moscovici, La Machine à faire les dieux;
- M. Eliade - Images and symbols; optional History of Religions;
- G. le Bon - The Psychology of Revolution;
- C.G. Jung - on archetype and collective unconscious;
- Gilbert Durand - Anthropological Structures of the Imaginary;
- Fernand Braudel - Grammar of Civilizations;
- optional Jack Trout and Al Ries on brand image;

And, if after this, if you don't go mad and pass the exam (witch I did, much to my surprise) you spend the rest of your life wonder how it was posible to do so.

So, I in case you want to find out more.

[end really off topic]

Now, back on topic.
Still the CL looks good, IMO.

Sorry for the headakes guys. Always a pleasure talking to you Roberto.

EnI · **Re: BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 01:07 PM

Let the excellent debate countinue here. I've moved all the relevant posts regarding this topic from CL thread to this one.

Imhotep Evil · **Re: BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EniLab

Let the excellent debate countinue here. I've moved all the relevant posts regarding this topic from CL thread to this one.

Eni, bring roberto, GTA and Marcus here if we are to continue.

EnI · **Re: BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

Eni, bring roberto, GTA and Marcus here if we are to continue.

Invitation sent!

Btw, I've already stated my opinion on this issue in theses two threads with almost identical topics:

1. http://www.germancarzone.com/showthread.php?t=3815 (Interior design: E Class / 5 Series / A6)

2. http://www.germancarzone.com/showthread.php?t=2927 (New Teutonic design language)

Centurion · **Re: BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 01:27 PM

BMW is the design leder at presentimes and there are clear evidence that Bangle started something huge with his deisgn. Companies like Mercedes, Audi, Honda and Ferrari have followed the lead.

Imhotep Evil · **Re: BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 01:29 PM

Roberto I think you nailed it pretty well. After reading a little bit about Gaetano Pesce, I can't help but wondering if he wasn't a mentor/idol figure for Bangle and Co. at BMW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetano Pesce

...
a very serious problem is that most of the people have lost the connection
with the society, they don’t work for the needs of soceity.
they work for academic, esthetic and formal reasons.
they risk being marginalized from real life. we have to answer peoples' needs,
create something useful, give joy and happiness.
...
a complete process,
this type of real innovation always includes 3 things :
innovation in language, material and tecnology.
...
so if you think about architecture, we have masculine architecture :
rigid, abstract, sad, homogenuos, against the human body.
we need feminine architecture, which is much more friendly to the human being.

......
"I strive to seek new material that fit into the logic of construction, while performing services appropriate to real needs."
....

Quote:

Pesce's extensive body of work has been recognized for its emotive and tactile qualities, unrestrained use of color, and insistence upon innovative building materials developed through new technologies and has been described by prominent architecture critic Herbert Muschamp as "the architectural equivalent of a brainstorm".

Yannis · **Re: BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies -** 10-04-2006, 02:33 PM

BMW=radical , groundbraking
Audi=evolutionary with respect to tradition

Big difference between the two.

First of all anyone can copy design features out of a BMW. Lexus has done that , Citroen and others but noone can copy design elements out of an Audi cause the design works as a whole and not partially.

If we want to see who makes the best designs we have to consider which of the German brands has designed cars that will be remembered years from now and will be considered as design icons and only Audi has achieved that in recent years with Audi TT Mk I and lately with Audi R8.

SDNR · 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

Roberto I think you nailed it pretty well. After reading a little bit about Gaetano Pesce, I can't help but wondering if he wasn't a mentor/idol figure for Bangle and Co. at BMW.

Yes, perhaps his actual designs have not influenced them directly (it looks like it comes from the apocalypse) ... but his ideas are very influential.

Also we should not neglect the significant influence of the French philosophers: Jacques Derrida and Jean-François Lyotard.

Other great thinkers in Italian design are Andrea Branzi, Ettore Sottsass, and Alessandro Mendini ....these men have influenced the entire world culture of design since the last quarter of the twentieth century.

In a time when computers were large, intimidating, boxes that took up entire rooms, Ettore Sottsass' Olivetti Elea 9003 computer from 1958 ...was designed to be "user-friendly". Sottsass designed the Elea 9003 to look "cute" almost like a childs toy -- an early example of "Human design" -- this was a very revolutionary and influential idea at the time.

This sideboard from 1981 is a further example of Sottsass' playful aesthetic ...it is anti-Modern design ....emotion over function.