German Car Zone

My simplistic (and probably inaccurate) answer - Spiderman, the movie. It is a block buster, but it is not winning any awards at the Sun dance film festival. Same goes for cars or anything where a creative aspect is involved. You can call it sophistication or elitism depending on which side you are on - but nevertheless this dichotomy exists in society when it comes to appreciating works of art.

The new C class is a good example - it is a very handsome design and I am sure it will sell well - but it is going to start any new design trends - I find the design an amalgamation of design elements we have already seen in other cars - both Mercedes and non Mercedes.

Well looking at the tumultuous time MB has gone through and the rapid succession of CEO's, loss of key members of the design staff etc. it's no wonder MB design, engineering etc. has been somewhat confused. I believe Zetsche has recognized this and has publicly stated MB will return to it's roots. This will likely include a more resolved and consolidated/clearer design direction.

As much as I like the new C, when placed against the S and CL benchmarks the interior design is somewhat incongruous. However they have done a very very fine job with the exterior design of their 3 latests sedans/coupes, the S, CL and C. The ML, GL, R, CLS, B, & A are vehicles launched when MB was at its greatest crossroads and most confused.

Give the brand another 5 years yet and once again they'll be stamping their mark amongst the automotive design leaders.

Valid points made Hussein but I do have a few objections. I agree that there has been a slightly clash in some recent MB designs where they have been a mix between sport and conservatism. I think Mercedes has done a great job attracting youngsters while staying true to their roots and keep the baby boomers happy with post modern designs.

Should Mercedes remain 100% conservative? No they shouldn't. They are not Bentley or Rolls Royce. Even if they were they will have to change and re-interpret their design philosophy to fit in with new trends and design movements. Even Bentley and RR has done that with their new models.

As for the latest MB, i.e S, C and CL I'd say they look very conservative and the only touch of sport they have are the the forward tilting rear and the line cutting across the sides of the cars. Those design cues have given the new models the touch they need in order not to look dull next to a new bimmer. The new C, S and CL look as much of a Benz as any MB which ever has existed.

My biggest objection is the comment about MB's designs aging soon? Not in a million years. If there is any manufacturer which develops well aging cars it's MB. Even when the kid on the block came out the sales of the w220 were still as steady as the empire state building up until the w221 was launched. The w203 C doesn't look to shabby either and neither did the old CL at the end of its life circle.

once again ppl tend to highlight the problems with the design for MB´s recent cars..when my question was.. why is it that ppl with knowledge of design feel that the design lacks something.. while the common man appriciates the design..

the only answer that was to my point and will get karma from me is that of sunny..
wich gives me the impression that you can flip the coin as to say...that the opinions of pros are either very accurate and current..
or you can say that the opinions are very anal.. ( in search for a better word)

PS
And as far as the againg issue goes.. i have to dissagree like a damn fool on this one..
the last generation of MB cars did not age badly.. in fact they aged superbly..
examples
W220,W215,W203,W211 and the SL.. wich is timeless..

Some of you guys seem to to quite get my point. Sorry for that
I was talking about this generation/ next generation of models not the last/previous ones.
talking about: W204/W221/W216(to a certain degree)/C207/W212

What I say is my opinion.. it doesn't represent any one else but me. Maybe there are designers/artists/design enthusiasts who think that what I'm writing is complete BS.. and I'm cool with that because I'm not forcing anyone to believe what I do.

^preach man..
about the new modells aging badly all i can say is time will tell..
i hope not..history says they wont.. and today to me it feels like they wont..
but lets see

for the rest of it.. it all then boils down personal taste..
the diffrence is only that one might write.. i dont like it.. or i love it..
and the other one might go into depth and analyze the design and give a more thorough explenation to why..
but the end result is the same.. the beauty is in the eye of the beholder then..

PS
You all MUST remember please....that im not on a mission to diss anyone.. or a certain type of ppl on this board..
as i enjoy the design crowds posts very much.. and i want to keep on doing so..

So finally if i have offended someone on my quest for the answer of my question..then im very very sorry..
please keep on participating as you have done.. dont let me be the one to make your contributions sound pointless..
as that is not my goal with this...
And i certainly dont feel that in depth discussion of designs are pointless

Just needed to make myself clear on the issue..

That is precisely how I feel too.

I am also concerned that Audi is not following through with the great potential they have shown with recent concept vehicles -- they appear to be loosing focus -- Audi should always be clean with the only cut-lines being where the contours of the vehicle change.

Mercedes is a bit of a mess these days -- the CL is undoubtedly the best-looking coupé in recent times but it is not as great as it could have been. There are aspects of the CL which appear not fully resolved to me.

My honest opinion of BMW is, I personally don't love most of the vehicles - but I do respect very much what they are trying to do. However, the new CS is one of the best-looking cars I have seen for a long time .....but it is not a revolutionary concept at all, it could easily be a production car.

I think you make excellent points Sunny.

The thing is, auto design is, in reality, "pop culture". Designing a car is not the same as designing an art museum. A car design has to appeal to popular taste ...hence, it cannot be too radical. It is also ridiculous to expect the public to educate themselves about what the designers were trying to achieve with a design -- the design should be self-explanatary and appeal to the tastes of the market -- in the end these are products which have to sell.

Chris Bangle has brought "show business" to car design. He has picked up on the global trend of "design as spectacle". In recent years architecture has become preoccupied with making bold statements (Form follows fantasy).

Frank Gehry's Museo Guggenheim Bilbao has become one of the most photographed buildings on the planet and is much more famous than any of the art it houses. The general public has little understanding of deconstructivism in architecture or the intentions of architects like Ghery, but they like the novelty of the designs. In my humble opinion, there are much better buildings than the Guggenheim Bilbao and better architects than Frank Gehry ...but he has become a star. The general public would probably not be so excited by the buildings of Peter Zumthor or Tadao Ando but they are extrememly talented architects doing very great work too.

Building by Peter Zumthor


Car design has always been a mix of high design priciples and fantasy ...in the 1950s Harley Earl (creator of the first concept car) from General Motors was responsible for some the most spectacular cars ever designed. He picked up on the popular American zeitgeist for "The Jet Age", "The Rocket Age", "The Atomic Age", and expressed these evocative ideas with designs which look like Disney creations -- these were fantasies for the popular imaginations of the 1950s.



In many ways Bangle is giving the market what it is wanting, he is inspired by high culture design (Zaha Hadid, Frank Gehry, Herzog & de Meuron, Daniel Libeskind, etc.) but is making it accesible for popular consumption -- Unlike those important architects, Bangle does not follow any particular rules or manifestos, it is really more an exercise in styling than any real design principles but it seems to be working well for BMW.

As for design aging, I think some people are taking it a little too literally - and getting defensive about it. While how well a car ages is too subjective to be generalized in most cases, a better measure is the longevity of the the key design elements that make up a car. I can't remember that last time some one else adopted a Mercedes design element (sans the Koreans - of course ), while there are numerous recent cases of others adopting BMW design elements - the most famous example being the infamous bangle butt which is now sported in different variations from the S class to the Camry. It started a design trend that will far out live the car itself - which in turn of course also helps make the car not look too out of date. My .02 cents .

^fyi the so called bangle butt was first seen on a Maybach..