No disrespect or anything but I can only disagree with the two points on the BMW's bootlid and the I-Drive controller.

Any concept car can preview a "concept", a line of popular thinking among automotive creatives if you will.

Actually in the end - it's all about execution.

BMW were the first to execute the clamshell bootlid - it did so with a form and line that is completely different from the soft, flowing lines of the Maybach's supposed hommage to the luxury cars of yore - and integrate this in a cohesive luxury production car. Much of the E65's design language was inherent in the Z9 Concept - a car whose bootlid did not resemble the Maybach's in the slightest.

The I-Drive concept was the first to be publically unveiled with the strategic intention of being implemented in mainstream cars. We saw this as well in the Z9 Concept. Anything else before it was just sci-fi level imaginings.

But in the end, any argument is easily settled; concepts come and go but BMW did these things first because they executed and delivered to market first.

The rest followed. We all know it.

The 7er ushered in such a revolution in luxury motoring and yet is so vociferously maligned by all and sundry. In years to come people will recognise that the E65 7er represent a pivotal event in the passage of car design and function.

Execution, true. That is why I give credit to BMW for putting those things into production first, but this implication that Mercedes copied BMW is still nonsense. Especially since we know that Mercedes had these things on the drawing board and pre-viewed them years before BMW.

No one is saying the trunklid of the BMW copied the Maybach or anything like that. Truthfully all they share is a clamshell type lid, nothing more.

Most car company's concepts come and go, but for Mercedes (and BMW and other Germans) they actually pre-view the real deal. That can't be disregarded while trying to say MB copied something when they most certainly didn't.

M

^Spot on Marcus,my thoughts exactly

I want to ask this question: what I-Drive concept did Mercedes really preview?

And, if BMW didn't go with the NDL clamshell bootlid, would Mercedes (and more so, Lexus) have done so?

Oh, and don't get me started on the horizontally partitioned (my own term) dashboard layout with the screen mounted in the dashtop surface and not the centre console?

These instantly recognisable characteristics originated with BMW. I won't say the others copied, for the rational reasons you state Marcus. But I will say this, they certainly did follow.

And you all know me, I'm a pretty reasonable guy but on this point I won't be swayed.

New technologies are hardly copied - especially when deley in introduction is minimal, while development takes many years before tech made it into production.

As said many times before: almost all of the new tech systems are developed in cooperation with other German automotive suppliers (eg. ZF, Sachs, Bosch, Siemens VDO etc). And not only one manufacturer is involved in the development, but usually all German carmakers are. It depends on model policy & brand image which tech is more relevant to a specific carmaker, and which is not so much. Therefore there are delays in introductions: eg. sometimes MB debuts some tech solutions first, sometimes BMW does, sometimes Audi etc. There are also exclusivity arrangements possible - eg. giving some carmaker exclusive rights to market & promote a specific tech first, and for a certain period of time before others are starting to use it.

Tech development is not done in vacuum!

Regarding design "copying" - not sure about that either. Design is also not done in vacuum. Inspirations are taken from various sources, and also the trends are very important.
Marketing researchers are monitoring & analyzing trends in consumer (current & future) tastes (taste projections). And usually the results are very similar - not depending which company is proceeding the research.
But the interpretation of the research results may vary, and the executions in designs as well.

So, I would rather use phrase "following the trends" than the word "copying". Yet, of course, it depends much on executive decisions whether to be a trend leader, or just follow the others. That's the only difference: the priorities. In design / styling solutions, and the tech ones. And I'm sure premium brands are usually trend leaders since they have better resources & image to be able do it so.

The dash layout sure is inspired by BMW.

The iDrive of MB, in the Concept, was a black knob mounted in front of the armrest behind the gearlever, related to a high-mounted central screen with huge dimensions for the time. It was used for the main functions of the car.

Concerning the butt, the Maybach Concept showed it, and the production Maybach took it without any change. Well it did not change at all from the Concept, actually.

And the S-Class did not only borrow the Maybach's butt, but also the overall rear view including the shape of the lights. Nothing to do with BMW here, it's clear.


I agree wit EnI: we speak here of inspiration, trend settings, not copying. A designer does not design a car from scratch in ten minutes on the corner of a table jsut after having received divine inspiration or having fallen in love with the competition's new Concept-car.

Totally EnI

All three of these marques are drawing inspiration from similar sources right now -- arguing over who's copying who is missing the bigger picture.

True they did follow, but only as it pertains to getting them to market. My point here is that Mercedes was at the very least kicking these ideas around long before and that BMW didn't just pull these ideas out of the sky. It could very well be said that BMW was inspired by Mercedes' previous concepts and then decided to bring these things to market whole Mercedes was still "researching" them, but that is too far fetched unless you worked at BMW at that time.

My real issue here is the word "copy". Mercedes did no such thing, which you're agreeing with, but to say they followed BMW is wrong too, on the bootlid and idrive concept that is. Why, because Mercedes had clearly made it known that these things were in store on future production models by previewing them in concept form, like they've done for years and years.

BMW just beat them to market, which is all the common person sees, but that isn't supposed to be us here.

Yes Martin you are a very reasonable guy.

Where we seem to disagree is that you're saying that who thought of what first doesn't matter because BMW put it in the hands of consumers first, perfectly understandable and reasonable long as MB isn't falsely acused of "copying" or "following" BMW when MB in fact at the very least let the world know they had these things in mind long before BMW.

M

Nagasaki In Japan thought about this i-drive long before bmw/mb. Please proove me wrong.

That's conjecture and not an undisputable fact.

You could say that and you did (but that doesn't make it a fact).

Maybe they did Marcus, but then again we've seen lots of stuff previewed in concept form that just ended up as a pipedream. Concepts are full of pipedream shit. Like drive-by-wire joysticks...

BMW were the first to display with strategic intent to execute. Mercedes Benz may have had no intention until they saw that their competition had "stolen" their purported idea and implemented it in no less than 3 luxury model before Mercedes Benz could bring their version to market. This is called following your competition to market and it's a fact.

I beg your pardon, are you suggesting that I should to be seeing some other perspective?

Mercedes Benz followed BMW. They had several new model launches during the lifespan of the E65 and it took them to introduce the S-Class in a market nicely sanitised by consumers who were by then used to the ideas and design associated with 7er. BMW did the rest of the automakers a huge big favour by copping most of the flak and criticism for the concepts introduced to consumers by the 7er.