It's a case of perspective raoul.

You see the Cayenne as diluting the heritage of Porsche. I see the 911 as being the epitome of a long lineage of the most successful sports car in history. To me the Cayenne is merely an addition to the Porsche model range and in no way does it detract from the heritage of the brand.

The Cayenne clearly has a place in Porsche's model portfolio. It's the application of the diesel engine and not the diesel engine (and all of its less than sporty characteristics) itself that we ought to be worrying about. It's not like they're putting the engine in 911 GT3 DS.

Remember too that Porsche in the past has had some less than true-to-type models such as the horrid little 924 and the enormous 928. And still, the heritage persists untarnished.

The world may not necessarily need a BMW X6 but Porsche sure as hell need the Cayenne.

Of course Porsche needED the Cayenne. I can see where they're coming from: when you compare the sales of a crappy Escalade to the sales of a marvelous Quattroporte... so Porsche did a SUV. I would've done without all the heavy all-terrain feature, but that's not the problem.

If the Cayenne looked like the first Infiniti FX45, or like the X6, I would've applause. But it looks like a sh!t, a heavy bloated pig... A ML is gorgeous, a X5 very sleek and a Q7 quite stylish next to the Cayenne...

First problem, the ugly look.
Second problem, the crappy V6... very un-Porsche.

But okay, the Cayenne is a cash-machine. However, the diesel is unforgiveable.

And trouble is... now when you say Porsche, it's often the Cayenne who comes to mind. But it still has a sporty image: 750.000hp, super-fast, very nimble compared to the weight... With a diesel, it becomes slow and noisy. And that will kill the image.

If a young cock in a 25.000€ Golf GTI or Astra OPC can make the 0-100 in half the time of the 60.000€ brand-new Cayenne, tell me what makes this car a Porsche?

Just explain it to me: what makes the Cayenne diesel a Porsche, exactly, besides the badge?
Not the performance, not the speed, not the noise, not the driving pleasure. Then what?

And don't tell me Porsche needs it. The Cayenne still sells despite its age and look, and Porsche can afford to let VAG make money for them. Plus, diesel are less and less interesting, they still don't sell in the US (where the cayenne sells), why not making it an hybrid?

Of course raoul I hope you take into account that the arguments put forward above are purely of a personal and subjective nature. They're your opinions but they aren't facts.

Here's a fact: Porsche makes a sh!tload of money out of all of the Cayenne derivatives.
Here's another fact: Diesel SUVs are more popular in most markets than petrol SUV's and Porsche needs a diesel Cayenne to be more competitive.
And another one: Not all diesels are slow nor noisy - ask Tycoon, he's got a pretty fukken vicious diesel.

I have every expectation that the (in all likelihood) twin-turbo V6 diesel in a Cayenne will make some pretty impressive numbers in much the same way as current Merc or BMW oil-burners are pushing out.

As for your young cock theory - here's mine: no matter what you drive you'll inevitably come across someone in a cheaper and nastier car that's faster than you. So don't go dragging GTI's in your diesel Cayenne - that's all...

Porsche so need this car: there I just told ya! Again.

Let me give you an example.

You have one carmaker that is well-known for the quality of its products. They're more expensive than the competition, but... what a finish! and so reliable... so well-thought, so much better... Really, it's worth the premium you pay.
Then comes a new CEO. He wants this carmaker to grow, to be bigger, to sell more. To be a world company.
And he has an idea: hey, we can sell our products, even if they are more expensive. But as they are so good, we don't earn much more money than the other. Why not cutting the quality, but still selling them at a higher price?

And so he does. He still sells cars, still his cars are considered the best in the world, they still sell more and at a higher price than the competition.
But the customers are not that happy, in fact, with this new orientation. The reputation begins to fall.

As a result, a new competitor managed to achieve higher sales in the world's biggest market, and the core-ennemy sells more cars... Only a quick reaction managed to save the carmaker from the disaster.

See what I mean? The difference between short term and long term.

Maybe the'll sell a lot of diesel Cayennes. But ultimately, the image will suffer... You can't pretend to sell diesel tractors when you face Aston Martin and Maserati, and use your unique image as selling factor.

And I know what a sporty diesel is. It's still very far from being as entertaining as a petrol one, even if it's more reasonable.

How entertaining do you possibly expect a two-ton SUV to be? Irrespective of its powerplant type.

I've driven many powerful diesels and cars like the 330d and 335d are perilously close to their petrol counterparts in terms of performance and driver appeal. Only the most hardcore of track users will dismiss the new generation out of hand. I still feel that you're talking from a position of personal preference and not one of an objective appreciation for the appeal of a modern diesel in real-world motoring conditions.

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Sorry but you do know that Porsche is the world's most profitable car company eh?

Who says 911 owners aren't happy?

Where has their reputation begun to fall?

Are you saying that the Cayenne saved Porsche from disaster (it didn't - Porsche had made the turn-around long before that) if you're not then what are you saying?

As long as Porsche continue to make cars like the GT2, GT3 RS, Turbo, Cayman S and so on, their reputation will remain intact. Oh and lest we not forget that Porsche still has the capability of producing a halo model of such epic ability that it quickly becomes recognised as one of the pinnacle cars of its time. Cars like the 959 and Carrera GT are perfect for sustaining Porsche's image as a premier performance car manufacturer.

I say that if Porsche continues to build unsporty models it will loose its sporty image, and thus even the 911 will sell less.

This Cayenne diesel is for me another sign that Porsche is starting to become a "generalist" and is not a sport-car specialist any more.

For me they should do the contrary: now that they can rely on VAG for their survival, they can focus on the 911 and sporty models (maybe a 928, the Panamera even) instead of making an absurd Q7-competitor in shape of this Cayenne diesel.

I'm sorry but my bro has an FL e46 330d (the previous one was chipped to 260hp, this one is stock). Very torquey, very powerful. He had a 330i before, the noise and feeling are way more sporty. I don't like the noise and the fact that the diesel loose power when the rpm increases, it kills the feeling.

A big diesel is perfect to overtake, to go fast, it gives you sensations. But it's not truly sporty, only powerful.

I understand your point, it's interesting, but I disagree. For me it's a mistake on mid-term and a mis-use of the relationship with VAG.

Faster than I spelled it :

- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

Diesel is already more expensive than petrol in some European countries and rising demand will make it more expensive. So money-wise you might not save much but the lower CO2 emissions might bring the purchase price down.

CAYENNE WITH 240' D-D-D-D DIESEL HORSES?!
MEANS


It's pathetic.. this car will be (along with the Boxer) the real real poorman's Porscha!

This car should at least have the 4.2 V8 TDI if Porsche want some image left.



and to you ojis.. Absolute correct, there was a period when Diesel was more expensive than petrol .. currently in Norway it's of by 0,4 - 0,5 USD between them.

Lol, thanks Martin.

I don't think i need to explain about my diesel, it's already very well known that the engine in my car is sportiest diesel engine ever produced. Sure, it doesn't rev/sound like a petrol and it doesn't go up to 8000rpm, but it has been proved that even with 1,7 tons and diesel engine, this car is fun to drive, even more than some petrols of the same size and displacement. Straight line, city driving, curvy roads, i've tried just about everything with it (only not on track though) and it doesn't lack ANYTHING that i've had with my E39 523i, high revving petrol that is.

But this thread is not about BMW diesel engines, but a diesel Cayenne... Which i highly welcome btw, 'cause it's a Porsche SUV, not a 911. Period!