Well petrols were once "stuck" at 5000 rpms too, and we're talking about the sporty petrols.
Maybe one day there will be 20000 rpms+ V10 diesels .

Not bad for a diesel, huh raoul?

It is not about numbers. It is about the way the power is delivered. Even a 5,000rpm petrol engine makes (can make) a beautiful noise, and can be revved to 5,000rpm.
A diesel makes a crappy noise (in trying a car, you admire the noise for a petrol, the silence for a modern diesel...do you imagine a Ferrari without the noise?), and the power delivery is not sporty. It revvs and then power falls...Not good for the sporty, racing feeling.


Yes, of course. Modern diesel are perfect for cars like the 5er, E-Class, or even S or 7er: very powerful, very silent, quite refined, economical.

However, you don't want the motor of your Porsche to be very silent, do you? And if a diesel is not silent, it makes a rather unpleasant noise. Quite a problem for a sportcar. I don't say every diesel is crap, I don't say petrol is always better.

I only say a diesel has nothing to do under the bonnet of a Porsche.

Furthermore, you can't revv the diesel as you revv the petrol, because power falls after 4,000/4,500rpm...No redline pleasure. No thrill. No screaming noise.

Perfect in a sedan, even in a sporty one. But nor for a sportcar or a Porsche.

There are some particularly fine diesels out there - the BMW 3.0 TT is a noteworthy example. Diesels do have merit in many applications and I can see nothing wrong with a powerful diesel Cayenne. Diesels and SUVs are a very fine match as top-end rpm really isn't a vital component of the SUV's dynamic repertoire. Strong low-end torque delivery and manageable fuel consumption are much more important drivers.

That said, let me make it perfectly clear that in out and out, lightweight and sporty cars, diesel (with its soft throttle response, falling torque delivery as revs get higher and limited rev range) is simply not my cup of tea. Show me a twin-turbo flat six diesel in the back of a 911 and I'll show you some pretty vociferous disgust.

For me it has less to do with absolute max rpm - I'm not going to poo-poo an engine an engine for revving to "only" 7200 rpm - but more to do with a willingness to rev to the red line and an inertia-free experience upon full throttle driving. Moreover, petrol engines are just so much more co-operative and willing on a downshift than diesel engines - a vital characteristic for sporty driving IMHO.

Thank you.

I also don't want to see EVER a 911 diesel, but don't mind Cayenne diesel one bit. That car doesn't show true Porsche characteristics anyway, so why not.

I see we finally more or less agree...
Trouble is, the Cayenne wears the Porsche badge.

Porsche once was the name of true sportcar company, powered by passion and whose engineers had petrol and oil in their veins. Porsche was the real sportcar, the car of the connoisseur, of the gentlemen-driver. Didn't needed to precise what Porsche, no, "a Porsche" that was enough.

Now look at Porsche... They have money in the veins, and nothing else now.

The brands of the rich cocks, who buy a Porsche because it's expensive and supposed sporty... These big Cayennes, for me, have changed the image more drastically than we think. Now Porsche evokes more money than sport.

The 911 has lost a lot of its appeal, it lacks power, has gone a bit heavy, and even does not have a limited-slip differential... You have to buy a GT3, which is...what the Carrera should be. That move began mainly with the 996.

And the Boxster, well...not really a true Porsche, but it's okay, it saved the company (by killing a part of it). It helped tone the image down, but was needed to survive. A good compromise between sport and price.

The Cayenne was the final shot... Now Porsche is much more about money than sport.

If there now is a diesel Cayenne, tell me the difference between Mercedes or BMW and Porsche? Even M or AMG soon will be way more exclusive and sporty and "true" than Porsche...and that should not be.

Now that they have all the VW/Audi and co behind them, why not moving upwards? Trying to re-gain the lost image, to be exclusive, to make Ferrari competition? Instead of becoming a "BMW for the rich"?

Right raoul, now that you've had your anti-Porsche tirade there are some grossly inaccurate assertions that you make in your post above.

A modern Carrera is powered just right for the market within which it competes. It's not meant to be an M3 beater nor is it intended to out-drag an E63 or a Corvette. It is purely in a phrase, the entry-level 911, which, just happens to be the most successful sports car in history. Despite the power deficit, few cars actually compete with the 911's performance and handling dynamics in its class. EVO recently gave a 911 with performance pack upgrade 5 stars and called it "all the 911 you'll ever need". And no, they not being given back-handers from Stuttgart.

Any good car company is about profitable product and owners of 911s are all to happy to be given the opportunity of owning a Cayenne to cart the family around in. The Cayenne still sets the benchmark for SUV handling and regarded as rather outstanding luxury conveyance by journalists and owners alike.

Boxster not really a true Porsche? Poppycock. Go and drive one. I have and it's an exceptional driving experience. In my opinion, the Boxster remains the best drop-top for the buck and well beyond. Consider the Boxster's layout a bit non-Porsche, a bit nancy? Actually it's much closer in concept and layout to the greatest of Porsches ever made, if not the greatest supercar ever to hit the roads - the timeless Carrera GT - when compared with anything else Porsche had ever made... The Carrera GT was so good that it surpassed even Ferrari's lavishly developed Enzo as motoring's zenith at the time.

Porsche, by all indications, haven't sold their sporting souls to the automotive netherworld; they still produce the most emotive and drivable German sports / supercars around. In fact, without Porsche, Germany wouldn't have had a Ferrari and Lamborghini competitor at all. And Nissan would've benchmarked the new GT-R against an M6.

I tell you what, if I was rolling in the dosh and I had a GT3 RS, I sure as dammit would have a Cayenne too just for the hell of it. A twin-turbo V6 diesel would do nicely I'm certain...

^^Haha right, now I feel better after having said that.

I agree for the Boxster, and for the 911. Even if a limited-slip....

But for the Cayenne I don't. It's everything but a Porsche. A Panamera I agree, sporty and all that, but a 2,5 tons SUV, let me laugh.

Be sure that if I had a GT3RS, and needed a luxury five seater with boot, the Cayenne would come last on the list. And I mean last.

I'm not a fanatic, sayinf every Porsche has to ba a flat-six rear-engineered coupe. Not at all. I would ave accepted a Porsche sedan, like the Panamera (still not sure about its look, BTW). But the Cayenne is exactly the contrary of what Porsche is about.

It's massive power, immense weight, crappy obvious heavy look, electronical overkill everywhere, sheer complexity instead of purity, it's the negation of Porsche.

It's easy to say it's the sportiest of the SUVs. If I said Ferrari just made a pick-up truck, but the sportiest of them, would you be happy? I wouldn't.

And furthermore, it is one of the worst looking big SUV I've ever seen...
Now it could be released with a diesel engine? Now c'mon, is it worth the badge Porsche? Is a diesel Porsche respecting Porsche core values? Does it fit in the line-up?

I mean...it is not because Porsche has not five-seater that they need one, and especially not one with 20" wheels, 30cms ground clearance and 2,5 tons unloaded!!

I'm certainly not going to justify the Cayenne as being a purist's Porsche. Not at all - that's what 911s are for... Do I feel from an emotional standpoint that Porsche needs the Cayenne - probably not. But from a business point-of-view the Cayenne is a runaway success. It is ugly - especially in photographs but it does have immense road presence.

I'd hate for Ferrari to make a Ferrari SUV - this idea is completely at odds with the brand and, somehow, quite unlike how a Cayenne seems to fit conveniently into the Porsche line-up.

Anyhow, no matter how much we debate the virtues of the Cayenne from an enthusiast's perspective, there is no arguing that the Cayenne is master stroke in terms of product success. And who's to argue with that?

Right, it's a cash machine that allowed Porsche to develop the CGT...and I am thankful for that.

However, I see no need to make it diesel. it's just too much!