German Car Zone

With its quad-turbo W16 pumping out over 1000 horsepower and reaching speeds in excess of 250 mph, surpassing the Bugatti Veyron is no mean feat. Many have tried, but few have succeeded. Yet that is exactly what Bugatti's own engineers will have to achieve when it comes time to replace the Veyron with its successor.
What form that successor would take has been a subject of great debate and continued speculation. At first it was rumored to go downmarket as a roadster. Then it was expected to be a four-door. A lightweight exotic was said to be under development, while its new corporate overlords at Porsche seemed keen to erlegate the marque altogether to coachbuilder status. In an emerging interview for Holland's AutoTelegraaf, however, CEO Franz-Josef Paefgen revealed that Bugatti is preparing to launch a new model to replace the Veyron in 2011 or 2012, and that despite restricting emissions and fuel economy regulations around the world, the new model would have to stand up to the performance standards set by the Veyron. Design will follow along the same theme as the Veyron, while Bugatti also considers a racing program, although what championship it would contend remains the subject of further speculation.
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Bugatti represents so many things I love in life ...even if I have no desire to own a Veyron. I very much appreciate the uncompromising vision of Ettore Bugatti and his endeavor to build the best of the best without any regard for cost. His idealism may have been slightly unrealistic but I have the greatest respect for it.

There is also the genuine potential for Bugatti to build a Rolls-Royce Phantom-beater. Bentley will have the Arnage's successor to compete with the new "small" Rolls-Royce (Silver Ghost) ....Bugatti has more than enough cachet to upstage the Phantom.

I see what you mean with Bugatti upstaging Phantom with a daunting sedan 2-3 times the price of a Phantom. But I think VAG want to reserve the sedan game for Bentley.

What's been standing between the Arnage and Phantom is age and size. Looking at the lenght of the Arnage test mules it's pretty clear that Bentley have intentions of growing the car in size so that the Arnage will no longer suffer from inferiority complex. You can see that the wheel base for the SWB and LWB haave been extended significantly. The size of the car will be similar to the Turbo R featuring a more upright design to make the car look more grand and majestic than the current Arnage which is quite reserved in it's appearance. Not only that but the current Arnage is based on a very which makes a revolutionary approach for the new model, well in place. With all the technology and resources available in VAG we can expect the car to be very advanced.

^ Yeah, it is obviously going to be very large.

....but a Phantom competitor?

I was discussing this with Tarek a few days ago. The Phantom is not really the proper successor of the Silver Seraph. The new Rolls model will be that.

Traditionally, the Phantoms were always the top Rolls-Royce models.

The current Phantom is different from all the previous Phantoms. Firstly, it is essentially a mass-produced car. Phantoms were always entirely coachbuilt to special order only.

It is also interesting to note that although the BMW-era Phantom is very expensive, it costs considerably less than what its predecessor cost (at today's prices) -- I have read that if it was still being built today, the entirely hand built Phantom VI would cost close to $2,000,000 US.

Phantom VI (1968-1992)

This is the standard body Limousine made by the London coachbuilder Mulliner Park Ward (Mulliner and Park Ward were once separate coachbuilders, they were both bought by Rolls-Royce and merged).


A one-off and unbelievably ugly (1973) Phantom VI created by Frua, Italy.

Creating the Veyron successor should be cheaper, less time consuming and much easier because the drivetrain hardware is already there, now they just have to design a better car around the existing package. With a more aerodynamic and hopefully lighter body, the Veyron's successor can no doubt surpass the current car's performance benchmark. The engineers will probably have to reduce the car's fuel consumption and exhaust emissions, but other than that, the existing engine+gearbox combo is fine.

I have to wonder why anyone would build a successor to a product that they lose money on with every one sold?

Is the current Veyron not exceptionally aerodynamic?

You're right about the weight Derek, it is about 500KG heavier than the Carrera GT ...which definitely could be improved.

If it's of the same size as the Phantom and is just as bespoke as the the current Arnage then what would missing ingredient? Revival of a historic name from the 1920-1940s?

The original supporting argument for the Veyron is that the total cost of the car's development is still cheaper than the cost of participating in a season of Formula 1. I am guessing the majority of the money went into the drivetrain development, so now that it is done the new car should be able to become profitable.

Despite the way it looks, the car has a large frontal area which isn't good for drag, and its basic shape generates a lot of aerodynamic lift. so the engineers have all sorts of flaps and ducts inside the car, as well as the enormous rear spoiler than extends high into the air stream to keep the car on the road as well as minimising drag so it can achieve its top speed.

Right now I can't see how the engineers can take 500kg out of the Veyron, a stripped out interior can save about 100kg, the engineers can probably save more with a less complex engine.

You are right Hassan. I guess it's all about perceptions.

Very interesting, I never knew VAG rationalized the cost of the Veyron by what it would cost to compete in F1.

BTW, the weight issue is a really difficult one to overcome. The aluminum frame only weighs 34 Kilograms and the CF passenger cell weighs 110 kilograms.

The Veyron isn't just a car it's also a resource for technology and VAG have accumulated a lot of knowledge designing the Veyron and that knowhow will be seen in cars throughout the concern. For example the Panamera will have a similar pop up spoiler, but this one will also expand itself horizontally increasing the down force even more. We might even see the engine or gearbox used in the new Arnage.