German Car Zone

Not naturally.

But I guess all the electric systmes (drive, transmission, suspension etc) are now so connected in one Integral system, that it's much easier to get the best from the car when the systems are completely electronically steered.

Even more the case in more complicated solutions like hybrids, electric cars, extended-range EV etc.

Mind the "transmission" in electric cars is completely different - not even possible to be steered manually.

As Martin for more insight.

Sure there will be time frames when a certain brand will introduce new tech, while some other brand will do that few years after. But in 10 years ALL will be on the same page.

Some dogmatic petrol motorsport fanatics will be such a marginal group at that time ...

There will be no choice!

Go check your local store eg. Classic wolfram bulbs are being replaced by new "eco" bulbs. For domestic use. No more 150W or 100W classic bulbs available. Only 75W and lower. And even those will be replaced soon with eco ones.

Same will be in automotive world. No more old tech & old solutions - except from some excotic brands. Very expensive.

After new generation sports cars are introduce the old ones will look like a choo-choo train compared to TGV - image wise.

Like driving a Morgan today. Sure it's a fine & exciting car (even to drive) but ... C'mon.

Yes, there are still people among us who rather listen to classic gramophones & LPs than to MP3 players. Or ones who type on typing machines instead using computer. But are VERY rare & marginal.

Just the ones who drive contemporary retro classics like Morgan cars. And in the future I'm sure petrol-motorsport fanatics will get something fresh ro drive - but it will be very rare & marginal. And expensive.

Or ... they will have old second-hand cars there as an alternative.


It's the future. Not in a year or two - but in 10 years & beyond.

And the new generation sportscars will have the character of said choo-choo train compared to today's sportscars...

Jay Leno said something funny in this respect, the car saved the horse. The horse was used for everyday duties and when the car came along, horses were used for recreational purposes. Same thing will happen regarding today's fun cars when the dull cars of toworrow arrives.


The market for LPs have grown like crazy the last 10 years. The same thing often happens when tech is replaced by something inferior.

Now is the time to buy a Porsche, the prices will never drop.

I think EnI is right. The only problem here is that EnI is a BMW isnider, not a german car insider, so we tedn to think that what he tells us is just what BMW is doing, but in fact, you can see how Audi makes protoypes of electric R8s, and in the future the next S CLass AMG will be hybryd too.

I´m really convinced that in a few years sport cars will be hybryd, and the petrol/diesel engine will loose size and power and the electric one will increase it in every step forward, until the entire engine is electric.

Then it s quite simple i am not buying new cars anymore.

I am certainly not going to buy me an electric car for fun outings on tracks etc.

So i buy secondhand as long as possible then when everything is sold out. I stop buying cars and spend my money elsewhere.

I don t want 4wd and electric motors and i want manual transmission. I want feel with cars. Not some kind of tgv train in my garage. That s just ZERO EMOTION and not worth one penny from my bank account.

So if my kind of cars is not made anymore than it s goodbye to automotive industry.

EnI's words are harsh, a tad affronting but altogether true in an likelihood.

In 20, 30 years' time - should electric motor and battery technology progress according to current predictions - we'll be looking back on this the zenith of internal combustion engines with mixed feelings of nostalgia combined with a wry realisation of our erstwhile naivety.

So much of what we take as the norm these days is, and logically should be, on the verge of obsolesence. If I had any say, I'd phase the following out in this order:

1. The manual transmission; I'm a stick-shifting, heel-n-toeing car nut. I love manuals - they require great skill and are a source of immense fulfillment once mastered. But, in reality... they're redundant, pointless and impractical in today's totally different, heavily conjested world. Moving forward, the only reason that any car ought to have a 3 pedal, lever-slotting transmission is for nostalgic/historic track meets.

2. The naturally aspirated petrol engine. In an M3, GT3 or Scuderia the naturally aspirated engine is a magical, enthralling piece of engineering. Sadly, the pure emotion and justifiable driver appeal is destined to be consigned to history as turbocharging and modern diesel technology puts paid to the mass-produced NA engine's inefficiency and environmental unfriendliness. Petrol engines ought to get smaller, lighter, more efficient and more torquey with the advancements in forced induction. Internal combustion engines waste enormous amounts of heat energy that, in future, should be harnessed to augment exisiting power supplies.

3. The fossil-fueled internal combustion engine as sole power source. Fossil fuels are unsustainable at their current current and predicted consumption rates, the internal combustion engine sees itself being dramatically downsized and combined with torque-boosting hybrid solutions; inevitably, the IC engine starts to fulfill the role of generator to charge battery-powered motors which, in turn, become the primary motive source.

4. Fossil-fueled engines altogether: Electric motor and battery technology reaches new levels of outputs and consumption efficiency. Outmoded transmissions necessitated by the internal combustion engine are a bygone peculiarity. Electric motors in each wheel coupled with automatic reduction gearboxes enable vehicle to sprint off the mark with amazing response and cruise at very high speeds - silently.

In the end, we'll look back and laugh at the absurdity of exhaust noise and pollution, the inconvenience of having to once go to a filling station to top up a vehicle with combustible fluid instead of charging the car in your garage and the archaic mechanical complexity of a system merely designed to turn two or more wheels.

personally i am a little afraid the we jump too fast on the e-train. Lithium is only available in limited numbers on our planet, studies show that its simply not possible to give every motorized family one electric car. so currently our mind is ahead of our technology. f-cell could of course be the solution, but i guess that this technology is even further away then current mainstream e-drive technologies.
don't understand me wrong, i am not against an e-revolution in our transportations nature, but it shouldn't be sold as the holy grail.
i'd say limited it to city cars(put it where it really makes sense - cities like New York, Shanghai,...)
sport cars should be limited to range extending modules for city use, it hardly makes sense to electrify sport cars to 100%. batteries have a life range and this gets reduced dramatically during high usage. we shouldn't forget that batteries also drain while not in use - even the tesla roadster has this problem.
so the next step for sport cars could only be hydrogen engines, this is what i see becoming popular for niche vehicles in about 10y

Following on from my post above - what does this mean for car enthusiasts and for a division such as BMW's M?
Well, for enthusiasts, a different form of competitive driving but as long as there's a concept of speed, there'll be a concept of sport or competition.
We'll just be driving around Silverstone in electric cars that's all.

For BMW M it'll mean a new way of doing business - using advanced motor technology, coupled with electrically adaptive suspensions all integrated with the most advanced software programming to differentiate their electric cars as the most advanced, sporty and involving to drive on the market.

Sorry to bring back my horse drive carriage analogy back. But cars, when they first came out where far from sexy or cool. But progress and popular culture made them so. Same will happen to electric cars too. One season of electric F1 car, and everyone will be scrambling over each other to be seen in one. And make no mistake, sports electric cars of tomorrow are going to destroy today's GT3s and Scuderias - 4 powerful motors on 4 corners controlled by a CPU - imagine the potential - no drive train, no drive train loss, no gears, no brakes, torque vectoring at it's finest.

Having said all that, M does kind of seem lost in the short term under this Kay dude. Like bringing out stupid superficial editions that are nothing but a paint job instead of real ones like CSL. But that is what you get when you put a marketing guy instead of an enginenering guy on top - superficial crap.

^ Exactly Sunny. It's not a case of whether it should change anymore. It's a case of that it has to change. The whole system - the engine, clutch, gearbox, propshafts, diffs and driveshafts - is a massive amount of complexity for the end result. As beautiful as it is and as much as I love and understand it.