German Car Zone

Bingo. Its all very hypocritical IMO. Then you read where Mercedes is "wasting" R&D money on Black Series cars while BMW builds more vehicles for a segment that may or may not sustain them.

The real implication that BMW can't do green and turn out CSL's at the same time is really hilarious. Previously BMW was capable of anything, now all of a sudden their hamstrung by emissions and being green, so much so to the point where M models have to be cut back or elimated from the program.

We now know that Mercedes can't do Black Series cars and concentrate on emissions and being green at the same time, so they say.







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I said many times: SAVs are not necessary "dirty" per se.

Definitely not more than big luxury limos ala 7er/S-class, or sports cars ala SLC / SLR / R8 / AMG / RS / M.

Yet it's easier to make a "truck" green: adding AdBlue SCR diesel tech, hybrid drive, efficient turbo petrol engines, etc. Easier than appling such stuff on sports cars.

Yes, "trucks" are heavier and therefore less clean then eg. a small sedan or hatch, but still more economical, profitable & more rational & reasonable than a sports car.

Sports Activity Vehicles is what people want right now. Just like the wanted / liked wagons a while ago. Time changes.





Perhaps BMW are slowly but surely re-positioning the brand ... from hard-core sporty brand to luxury-sport with green touch. Following the new needs of the customers, and following the metamorphosis due the rapid growth of the company. New times, new image.

Look at the trend: every generation of BMW cars is less racing-oriented, much more luxury, more comfortable, less hard-core, more efficient. And that trend started many years ago.

Thats exactly what i DON't Like

Every company is in a long-term repositioning process: it's called evolution.
Or adaptation to new situations, if this sounds better to you.

Even MB evolved from super-luxury sedan, coupe & roadster / cabrio maker to much more "volkswagen" type of brand over the history.

Because there was a demand for new types of (e. small) cars, and the company just took an opportunity.

Some brands with high pedigree seem to "regress" in this respect ... Porsche making a SUV, & now a sedan; BMW moving from hard-core sporty roots, going into niche cross-over stuff; MB introducing "Volks" MPVs like A & B class - even FWD!!! etc. These brands were respected & having strong image due being hard-core & strictly focused. But times change - they have to react, otherwise they can die.

Porsche almost went to bankrupt in the oil crisis in the 70s - since their product portfolio wasn't up-to-demand of that time. Same case with BMW a decade eariler.

Sticking to principles can be deadly sometimes.
Sometimes it's wiser to open a new chapter in your life, break with tradition / old habits ... and survive!

And successful companies do that. The hard-headed ones fail.

Look at the British car industry - which was not up-to-date with customer's demand ... sticking to much with tradition. Or what is happening with US automotive industry right now.

There you have the reason for the upset. People are confused and are now evaluating what brand might be right for them in the future.

Mercedes Benz did not stop making the S-class and Porsche did not stop making the GT3. End of that.

I find it hard to believe, how a 2T+ cars can be more easy to be made green than light and potentially very efficient aerodynamicly sport cars, be it supercars or nice little sport cars.

Thank you for saying what i was about to say..

Eni all that is good.. Change is good.. If you still stay true to your roots..

Now i still dont like that MB went and made the A class instead of branding the MM as a Mercedes.. but the A class sells like hot cakes and it makes money for MB.. Money wich they use to give us crazy things like the SL65BS and so on..

So if this new green side of BMW will generate money wich they will place in high end modells.. then no one is more happy than us..
But it does not seem to be like that..

Guys, you are being completely carried away!


BMW core value is sporty-feeling across the whole model line.
BMW vehicles are still the most sporty-dynamic in the class, and still most driver's cars. Across the whole line.

Yes, some other brands can make as super-duper supercar (GTR, R8, LF-A, NSX, SLR, SLC etc), or racing-like versions of some models (MB BlackSeries), but that DOESN'T MAKE THEM SPORTY BRANDS!!!

Don't you get it? BMW sporty image do not (never did!) derive from some special super-sporty model, but from sporty spirit present in EVERY CAR BMW MAKE!

If you think a supercar makes a brand sporty, then you are bloody naive!


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Regarding BMW going green - that's not just an image campaign but a change in philosophy. Of course the tech should first be introduced in core models - to pay off all the R&D. Then we can expect such tech - when already has some positive feedvack - to enter ssports cars (eg. Ms).

"Small performance cars" - they do not pay off! BMW can easily make M1 - but all the development & marketing cost won't pay off at the price customers will be ready to pay for the car. Eg. to make the car profitable th car would have to cost only eg. 10% less than M3 - but at that price nobody would buy it (or the number will be just very pathetic).


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BMW customer base has evolved ... The racing-enthusiasts are a very small minority. And most of them still buy used BMWs, not new ones!

And luxury-car customer base (which is now a majority of BMW customers) have different demands - more comfort, more convenience, less hardcore sport, more sport-on-demand, still the crispy driving feeling etc.

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Sometimes we are too sentimental, romantic & emotioanal here.

Btw, even 911 has become a pussy-car - compared to 911's from few generations ago. Why? Because Porsche also becomes a luxury good, and customers want more civilized car.

The only difference is that Porsche has such brand cache that some stupid people are ready to pay a fortune for a eg. GT3, or Turbo etc. But those sales numbers are very thin, and the proofit is still huge (due crazy price). BMW - unfortunately - can't do that.

MB AMG, SLC, SLR, BlackSeries etc .... just making connection to history when MB was also considered as one of the sportiest brands as well.

R8, RS, LF-A, F, Jaguar R-type, NSX, GTR, GT etc ... just image makers: trying to convince people the brands are sporty (although in the essence they are not). But ... such car can ONLY ENHANCE SPORTY IMAGE, NOT MAKE ONE! So, if there is no sporty image before, such a car by X brand is usless effort.


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Regarding going green: the transformation is essential but very expansive move. Eventually all the brands will have to do it. Toyota was wise - starting to go green before others - unfortunately Mk1 Hybrids are more marketing ploy, but Toyota / Lexus got the green image which will definitely pay - off in the future.

So, even your beloved MBs, Audis, Porsches etc will have to go green.
Do not panic!

lolololol