I know a guy that had a 25 years old Volvo and it's still working.

Can anyone show me a 25 year old Lexus that still works? Oh i forgot! Lexus didn't even exist 25 years ago! Lol.

Maybe it was a hint for Toyota from the new Ford CEO?

My comment wasn't narrow-minded in any way and you know it. You are bashing Lexus/Toyota because you don't like their image and design, the latter one being purely subjective. You especially as an Audi fan shouldn't judge Lexus, it's not very long ago when Audi couldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with MB and BMW. Those things don't make Lexus inferior to Volvo. Saying S80 is better car than any Lexus is something you would hear from a 13-year old Volvo fan boy. Please, Yannis, Please...

Man all this time I thought he was driving a Boeing 777-200LR

BTW, Lexus is a good car.

I wish all CEOs had balls the size of Mullaly's. I like this guy!

Ok well i jsut have to say this. I lke the new ls 460 not more than any of the german luxury cars but i do think it has alot going for it. sure it may not be the fastest or the the sportiest drive or whatever but i do think that they tried really hard on this car so i give it some credit. if i had money to buy alot of luxry cars i would get one of these for the days i dont need people staring into my car and such. But i dont agree with the title of it being the finest car in the world.....thats the s8

Oh God, it's Yannis with his idiotic Lexus-bashing again. Haven't we had this same discussion, oh, about 500 times before?

So let's reiterate what we know. Yannis has no idea about Lexus and bashes them at every chance he gets. We get it. I don't think we have to talk about this any further.

I would apreciate it if you didn't call me names again. I could also call idiot or retarded or stupid those who believe Lexus/Toyota propaganda like you or Gene but i don't intend to fall so low.

Since Lexus makes so nice car as you say then how do you explain their poor sales in Europe , which is the most demanding market in the world?

Read the following article and you will understand what i mean:

German analyst calls Lexus sales in Europe "pitiful"

Global Insight analysts Phillip Rosengarten and Christopher Stuermer have written a new book titled "Premium Power, The Secret Of Success Of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche And Audi." In it, they describe how "premium" brands of BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Range Rover, and Volvo are superior to "mere luxury cars" from Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, Jaguar, and Rolls Royce, because they continuously set new high standards. Rosengarten calls Lexus' European sales of about 20,000 cars a year "pitiful." He also says a brand's history is important to prestige. "Without heritage, which means a glorious history and brand tradition, it will not be easy to establish a successful luxury brand in Europe, not to mention establish a premium brand. All the more so as Lexus has many American luxury-style elements with its design orientation geared towards other premium brands instead of creating its own unique elements, and it cannot showcase any important innovations," he said.

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Yannis, I fail to see how I "fell" for Lexus "propaganda". What propaganda lies with the success of Lexus? Nothing, really. They simply make good cars that can mix it with the best of them. It's nothing confusing or idiotic about it. The fact that they became front-runners with such established nameplates such as BMW and MB in only the past few years is testament to how good Lexus' are. No propaganda. Just good, simple cars.

As for their limited successes in Europe, just because a brand doesn't sell very well doesn't mean that their cars are not good. That's stupid. You have to remember, that the majority group doesn't care about how 'good' a car is, but focus more on the trends and brand reputation/history. Also, other factors such as advertising and brand awareness also contribute to the success of a car manufacturer. Now, I don't live in Europe, so I can't really elaborate on Lexus' limited succeses, but looking from the outside in, I could only assume that the lack of advertising in print and media and Lexus is failing to properly get their cars 'out there'. Also, the history of the brand (which can't be helped) must also provide a crippling effect to the sales.

However, it is obvious that Lexus is trying to find it's feet in Europe after such huge successes in America (which still stand as the largest car market in the world) and arguably, Lexus will invest a large amount in getting the Lexus nameplate into Europe. Whether this will meet success in the next few years is debatable, but I hope they succeed, as they deserve it.

Another factor which contributes to the dismal sales is the European 'resistance' to Japanese cars. As far as I know, brands that are popular in Australia and USA, such as Mazda, Nissan and Toyota are continually shunned by the European public. You are a classic example of this attitude. According to you, anything that's not German should be regarded as an inferior vehicle. Perhaps that might be due to European car prices being lower than equivalent costs in America and Australia (where Japanese cars being great value for money), so 'premium' brand cars from Europe are of similar prices to that of their Japanese counterparts. This is just a mindset of the European majority, and ultimately, it will take years and years, if ever, to break that mentality. Lexus simply cannot do anything about this mindset, and will endure tough times in the coming years. Just plain bad luck, really.

So there you have it Yannis. There's no relationship between good cars and sales, and Lexus' less-than-impressive sales are more contributed to the mindset of the European public, and just pure bad luck. Nothing else, to be honest.

I believe there's a very real corelation between good cars and sales, it's just that there's always a perception vs reality gap that's skewed by marketing and cultural bias. For this reason, Benz sales have taken a hit for a decade of questionable reliability and Toyota have cemented their success in the US.

Lexus faces a stacked deck in Europe, so it's easy to understand why they're not on the radar in Germany and elsewhere. Aside from numerous external factors, the number 1 thing we need to remember is that Acura and Lexus built their success atop of the success of Honda and Toyota respectively. Toyota is still finding its way in Germany, with some small hits here and there, and Honda is virtually invisible save the Jazz, which has gotten some positive exposure.

Just a quick remark and i will reply to the rest later. Jaguar and Cadillac are well established luxury marques as far as i am concerned cause they have the tradition and unique identity that it takes for a marque to be considered as luxurious. They don't immitate and they didn't fall from the sky one day trying to convince everyone of their status.