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| Re: In detail, New CL Class (Thread 6 Cont'd) -
10-04-2006, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Imhotep Evil, you have some very strong opinions and some unique ways of seeing things. ...but I must explain what I mean by metaphsical.
Symbolical is too specific Imhotep Evil ... it refers to signs and symbols with specific meanings. I am referring to the "coded" messages (signs and symbols) suggested in the design that arouse the subconscious.
Metaphysics in Modern art and design refers mostly to the subconscious associations a person makes with particular signs and symbols (semiotics). These associations may be learned (cultural/environmental) ...or gained through personal experience (subjective understanding). | OMG, big mistake here, if you belive symbolical refers to signs and symbols with specific meaning.
You also don't seem to make the distinction between archetype vs. symbol vs. emblem, atribute.
- "the (chosen) one" is an archetype, it is a product of the primitive man, of the collective unconscious, with a specifical meaning, identical for every individual;
- the police badge is a emblem;
- wings are an atribute that refer to aviation;
- symbol is something more complex; it's the triadical relation between
a) an object
b) the mean/method thru witch the designation is done
c) the interpretative conscience = man as an individual subject or men as an colective subject
A symbol is created by associating (designating) one or more diferent meanings (more profound, that go(es) beyond) by the the interpretative conscience to an object.
A caracteristic of the symbol is that " it does not have a real existence as part of the physical world; it has a meaning (semnification)".
The same symbol can have diferent diferent colours and meanings depending on individuals, nations, ethnic groups, rases, religions, historical eras, or the climate of the time.
Its primordial meaning(s) can change, or it can even lose its state as a symbol.
A symbol "isn't rigid or inflexible, but mobile".
Neptune’s trident is the devil’s pitchfork, but it's also an emblem, or a simple decorative design.
And it can be coded/cripted, ofcourse.
Codification is a process whereby conventions are established. For instance, in Hollywood cinema the white hat became codified as the signifier of a 'good' cowboy.
But codes do evolve, and thus the fundamental flaw of structuralist semiotics (the synchronic perspective) is revealed. For they say/belive or tend to give the impression that codes are static, witch is false.
And therefor archetypical would be the word you've comfused with symbolical.
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Post-Modern design generally communicates more directly, less intellectually and more emotionaly -- this is what BMW are trying to achieve with their "Human design" -- in this respect, you are correct, it is anti-metaphysical design.
| Thanks. Quote:
The human link (as you put it) in high Modernism (Bauhaus) design -- is not so directly emotional ...but can achieve a high degree of aesthetic stimulation, however, this requires a cultural understanding of the Modern context -- most of us do have a cultural understanding of this Modern context -- it is the context of high technology and industrial engineering -- this is metaphysical design. Audi still subscribe to this methodology ...but they are a Post-Modern car company and so this Modernist ideology is only one aspect of the Audi design philosophy -- I see irony in Audi's design philosophy ....that is a purely Post-Modern trait.
Design plays a major part in communicating these high-technological values of contemporary industrial engineering and information technology .....it creates an overall "effect", expressing and arousing our awareness of the "culture of technology".
| Audi's offical design philosophy is "Emotive" aka pursuit of humanity. Officialy the ditched Bauhaus. Quote:
Also, you are talking rubbish when you say BMW created the concept of humanity in design -- God almighty, that is one of the tenets of Post-Modern architecture -- nothing new there.
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I never said BMW created the concept of humanity in design, they however made a philosophy out of it, witch Audi also now share.
Quote: Give me a break Imhotep Evil -- Ferrari and Pagani road cars have never been purely "form follows function" -- they are absolutely loaded with complex subliminal references (codes) that go far beyond anything pragmatic and essential to performance.
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Nope, Enzo Ferrari started by building racing cars, who's only purpose was to win. The only thing Enzo Ferrari cared in the begining was usually the engine, and later as he admited, a good design for him a was a winning design (not a sensual/stimulating one).
Later on things have changed.
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They are designed to heighten our senses, arouse our subconscious -- stimulating primal instincts and emotions ........excitement, aggression, lust, sex. We would mostly associate this with the Italian passion for beauty in design -- but it stimulates very basic human desires.
| Agreed, but it wasn't always so.
Last edited by Imhotep Evil; 10-04-2006 at 08:24 AM.
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