German Car Zone

Human · 03-18-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolraoul

I'm very far from an engineer, so it's only an opinion, but all air suspensions I drove/could ride with were very comfortable, BUT did not give the same road-feel as a steel one. The car is somehow "floating", even the hard suspensions of a Cayenne with pneumatic dampers doesn't allow the same contact as with conventional springs.

This must be particularly true on front suspensions, where BMW chose to use steel dampers, surely not to compromize the road and steering feel of the car.

Whereas the rear axle has less influence on these factors, and it is very obviously the rear axle who takes the more benefits from these air suspensions due to the weight changes (number of passengers, luggages) and has the most influence on the comfort of the passengers, especially at the rear.

So, steel springs at the front for road feel, air springs at the back for comfort and charge adaptability. As far as ride height is concerned... Well this is useless to say the least unless you live in Amazonia.

Of course, with this, you can't achieve the comfort of the S-Class and its all-air adaptive suspensions, but it is not what BMW wanted to do and if you're that concerned with comfort, then you might want to switch to Benz

.

For the X5-X6 I don't know, they really could benefit from air suspensions as it allows a more supple ride while limiting bodyroll. And the air-suspended Cayenne is no comfort-oriented SUV either... You will notice however that the "sportier" GTS does come with steel springs.

Thank you for the info!
Switch to Merck.....mmmmm.....NOPE! I respect the Swabian Manufacturer ALOT! BUT: Owned 2x new W203 C-class cars, test drive a E46 325i back in 2003....I am the proud owner of my 4th BMW know :-)
I am not the one looking for the comfort, it is the motoring press - their opinion about the F01.

EnI · 03-18-2009, 07:48 AM

F01 comfort ... The British journalists complained quite a lot ... They always do when the BMW's comfort is in question.

They go & ride the cars on their s..y roads, and of course no car is even close in comfort to MB (or perhaps Lexus).

And that's not enough for them ... they decided that segment (of 7er) is all about ultra-comfort, and super-silence, and easy-to-drive - no other alternative is possible. And therefore, of course, the 7er is not good enough for that segment.

Yet as I said: BMW offers sporty dynamics over comfort, and people buy it for that reason. Otherwise they go to MB or Lexus or etc.

Mind that usually customers & journalists don't have same taste / expectations / needs & demands etc.

martinbo · 03-18-2009, 09:54 AM

It has nothing to do with Brits and their "sh..ty" roads. You don't get the same complaint from them regarding the S-Class.

BMW could easily make the 7er ride as plushly as an S-Class. But they don't because it's not in their intent or direction. BMW doesn't want a facsimile of an S-Class. They want a car with its own identity and character that remains within the ethos of the brand. Hence the 7er - why? - because it's an alternative offering to the S-Class. Not a mere "me too" copy. I mean, if I was in the market for an S-Class why on Earth would I want a copy of one for the same money? Now, if I was in the market for a sportier S-Class type vehicle - well, clearly I'd be looking for a 7er.

EnI · 03-18-2009, 10:04 AM

^

What else have I said?

Human · 03-18-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnI

F01 comfort ... The British journalists complained quite a lot ... They always do when the BMW's comfort is in question.

They go & ride the cars on their s..y roads, and of course no car is even close in comfort to MB (or perhaps Lexus).

And that's not enough for them ... they decided that segment (of 7er) is all about ultra-comfort, and super-silence, and easy-to-drive - no other alternative is possible. And therefore, of course, the 7er is not good enough for that segment.

Yet as I said: BMW offers sporty dynamics over comfort, and people buy it for that reason. Otherwise they go to MB or Lexus or etc.

Mind that usually customers & journalists don't have same taste / expectations / needs & demands etc.

That is just and true! I owned a C180 K 2002 model. Ride was very comfortable. Our local BMW dealer had a 325i with 16k, full house sat nav, sun roof, auto, Xenon etc.....
I drove it....fell in love with the cars dynamics and handeling. The firm ride + E46 excellent build quality (E46 had MUCH BETTER BUILD than W203) won me over, as I said...I never looked back again. Now I own a white X6 35d :-) Best thing that BMW could have done for Naas Human, I love coupe's, yet also the X5...I had a 2004 4.4i....YIHAAA! BMW combined the two 650i+X5....And made me the happiest man alive!!!!!

EnI · 03-18-2009, 10:34 AM

^Gret.

So, please tell some of our members (and the journalists) the X6 makes sense for some ... And it's not that pointless at all.

Human · 04-20-2009, 09:36 AM

On the same topic again!

Our whole discussion regarding Air suspension - the why & why not - has been trown out the window by PORCHE AG.

Seems that perfect control and handeling can be achieved by, 4 wheel Air suspension. On the Panamera they use the double wishbone suspension just like BMW on the new 7er. With one major difference AIR in the place of conventional steel springs....Seems to me my favourite brand (BMW) is not into that much suspension technology.....especially compared with rivals Daimler AG & Porche AG.....

martinbo · 04-20-2009, 10:58 AM

martinbo bites his tongue until it bleeds...

Monster · 04-20-2009, 11:30 AM

I am not suspension expert but it doesn't matter which technology a car manufacturer adopts as long as they can achieve the desired end result, it is all good.

Merc1 · 04-20-2009, 02:04 PM

Thats true, but it is an interesting question.

My guess here would be the Porsche wants the S/CLS/XJ crowd to want this car also and for them not to find it too rough riding like a 911 can be when you step out of a big luxury car.

Now Porsche is still an engineering driven company on so many levels so they may have achieved something remarkable here if this car outhandles the competition while delievering a luxury car ride...the holy grail of suspension engineering/tuning.

M

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