Exactly what i was thinking... different philosophy. You talk about additive form, I was trying to formulate something a bit like that.

The F01 is a shape, the e65 an addition of different details. I see it like that, too. And for me it's meaning that BMW is kind of going back to pre-Bangle era, were a BMW was a great shape. Bangle was more about great detailing (additive, and later Flame Surfacing... it's not the shape itself that makes the design, but the detailing and surface treatment. Even if the e65 has no FS yet).

We see it the same way, only you think it's normal evolution and I think it's a new era...

(BTW, I certainly consider you as the board's design expert. Always a pleasure to learn from you about new trends in Architecture and Furnitures, and to argue about car's design! Unfortunately i did not study design, so I have no real background... You made me discover the fabulous work of Zaha Hadid for instance!)

Its smart that BMW didn't get too dramatic with the styling unlike the lexus Ls 460, so when it comes time for a facelift it's easy for them to adapt.

P.S they should make a sport version of the F01

Last night I could not believe my eyes when I saw a New 7 Series drive right past me while walking to a friends house in downtown Huntington Beach California. I just caught a glimse of it as it pasted and it looked beautiful in motion.

There have been camo cars driving PCH lately, but I was shocked to see the real thing in my nieghborhood so soon.

Look ... Something have to be said about E65.

The conventional typical BMW design elements: The profile of E65 is still very conventional. So is the side bodywork. Nothing really revolutionary. Tyoical BMW shoulder line - running from front to rear lights. Typical BMW short overhangs. Typical BMW C-pillar with Hofmeister kink. No flame-surfacing present (FS = bodywork with numerous convex / concave panels shifts, with sharp creases between two concave panels; something present very much on Z4, 5er, 1er, X5, X6, 6er hood etc).

The controversial "non-BMW" design elements: the clam shell boot lid with the non-BMW-typical light strip, and the front with small rectangular twin kidney grille with "cut" inner edge of headlight cluster. The inner edge tilted inwards instead outwards.
/ [][] \ instead of \ [][] / . The controversial details were corrected with the FL: less rectangular grille, pointy haedlights, refined design of boot lid, revised rearlight design - getting BMW-typical L-shape design.

The not-so-controversial "non-BMW" design elements: exterior: bloated, heavy & "fat" & appearence. But that's the fault of engineering (marketing wanted more space inside, engineers presented bad solutions - as said- due the limited resources, since all the BMW Group was dealing with Rover at that time). Hm ... the higher budget & resources available for F01 development were available - and voila - the engineers were able to pack more space in much sleeker car. And the designers had much easier job to design the car skin. The hidden exhaust pipes & absence of sharky fascia are also worthy of mentioning. Interior: non-driver-oriented cockpit, no stick shifter, non-BMW-typical gauges,


F01 has some "old" BMW aesthetics again: typical sporty-dynamic sleek & elegance appearence (but lacking presence & sovereignty) of E32 & E38 7er. Combining it with "current" BMW aesthetics of "E65": powerful stance, huge presence & prestigious / luxury sovereignty.

Also some traditional typical-BMW design elements are back: shark-like fascia, driver oriented cockpit, stick shifter, BMW gauges, visually exposed exhaust pipes, properly L-shaped rear lights.

F01 is bringing this completely new aesthetics (deriving from "old" & "current"): delivering a design with huge presence, with perfect balance between sporty-aggressive dynamism & luxury-prestigious elegance.

And since the trends in luxury segments dictate "reduced design" BMW just followed the trend with this "zenish balance", accompanied with much simpler, harmonious & clearer lines. But to make it utterly moder the skin is heavily flame-surfaced (zillion times more than the skin of E65!!!!!!!! - which only has FS-ed hood on the FL version, while the original has no typical FS theme present).

Yes, F01 comes with very few new design elements. Eg. huge kidney-grille, Hofmeister kink echo, curved CELIS LED strips, chrome "thingy" around side turn-indicator. all the other design elements are "old" or even "older":

shark-like nose, quad headlight projectors, pointy headlights, flame-surfacing, shark-fin antenna, exposed exhaust pipes, L-shaped rear lights, typical BMW proportions, sleek appearence, driver oriented cockpit, quad-gauges etc.

But what it's new - that no other BMW before F01 possessed - is this perfect combination: presenting us the new aesthetics. It's like "how-E38-succesor-should-have-looked-like-but-it-couldn't-without-E65-as-intermediate-level".

It's like summing 1 + 1, but not getting 2 as a result but 3.
F01 is not just a E65 + E38 / E32. It's more. And will again spread the new aesthetics to other upcoming BMW models.

As said before: current BMW line-up was a risky design experiment which payed off massively: giving the engineers & designers a great platform to work on, and giving the company a huge publicity. The tarnish image due unreliable tech, and controversial details will be easily repaired.

Well as I said earlier, it was a starting point.

It is very interesting to note the similarities between Audi and BMW when both set out in search of new forms of expression for their respective marques.

The design language is unmistakably Teutonic. The Bauhaus spirit is very evident in these car designs -- the historical idiom of German Modernism still looms over us in the 21st century ....even if it has evolved to become more emotive and expressive (less plastic/static).




Tea glass designed by Josef Albers at The Bauhaus in 1926.

That is so cool

You would probably be the first guy on this board to see it on the street

I'll give you karma (it's an in joke around here)

Maybe i didnt make my correction clear enough. FS i spoke about is the direction bmw chose starting with the E65 but spreading to other models of course. I did point out that the E65 wasnt summarized by ONLY FS tho.
In any case, whether engineers and designers clashed or not, and whether BMW hadn't enough resources at the time or not, early bangleism is clearly a poorly thought out approach that resulted in some unbalanced cars. Its 'shock and awe' methodology would have been more appropriate in military vehicles. And that methodology is clearly behind diluted now. The F01 is what the E65 should have been, but never was. And the bmw aesthetics you talk about in the F01 have been Bmer traits even before the E65 came about

Exactly

Aesthetically it has become more retrained and 'civilized' ...but the continually evolving BMW design idiom, started by Bangle, is very much alive and well.


You are right, there are traits that have always been there ...but the F01 would never have looked like it does without the big shift in the way BMW now conceives its car designs ...and the E65 represents that change in approach.

No, no, no ...

You don't get it. Flame-surfacing has nothing to do with E65. Original E65 features no FS design elements. The first production BMW with FS was Z4, previously previewed on x-Coupe Concept, and hood on Z9 (which was designed AFTER E65, although being showed eariler).

Flame-surfacing was the design element of the opposite pole: the sporty-dynamic one, represented by Z4 & 1er. E65 was FS-free, while the other models featured elements of both poles: FS, and multi-tubular 3-D sculptural approach E65 was all about.

And another thing: F01 as it is wouldn't be possible without E65 and all the other "Bangle BMW models". Saying "F01 is what E65 should have looked when introduced" is very ignorant.

E65 was a "statement" ... BMWs experiment, a try to reach further. Mind BMW brand played second fiddle behind MB (image wise) in all non-traditional markets. BMW needed a breakthrough. Another evolutionary generation would do absolutely nothing. Mind E65 & all the other "Bangled" models are revolutionary due to needed breakthrough in new markets (especially China, also Russia, Far Asia Middle East etc). Of course another evolution would be eg. OK for Europe or US, but nothing else would change.
So, with the E65 & Co the needed breakthrough was done, and now the Phase 2 is coming.

Many of you only look from your domestic market perspective. But the design revolution had other agendas than the established markets.

It was a risky job - they were aware some customer segments in established would be alienated, but the gains in the emerging markets were planned to be much more significant & important. And the planned worked. The design revolution was not only the design experiment, but also a marketing experiment!!!

F01 is the next step ...
Now when everybody is looking & listening / paying attention to BMW, BMW will present best possible designs & engineering.