^

OK ANT .....you know I appreciate you a lot. I don't want you to think I am so totally arrogant that I am not listening to your side of the argument

Of course not Rob.

Are there more images coming with the release? I want to see the red interior and hopefully some different wheel styles. A black coloured example would also be well regarded.

One nice touch I have noticed. The rear screens can be tilted to an angle that suits the passenger. Quite helpful for taller people who normally have to kink there necks downwards. Also, will the other gear selector be availible as seen on the 5er and 6er, the sports automatic with steering wheel paddles? This is a far more elegant design and may suit the car even more...

Why are you so focussed on the e65? Of course it was a statement, of course it was excessive, of course it was a revolution, of course it changed the game.

But then, BMW started to refine it, to develop the Flame Surfacing, to tone down the excess. Yet an e60 is clearly related to the e65, even if it's far more elegant and refined. A 6-Series, a Z4 are all related to the e65.

The e65 is the Daddy, and the rest of the line-up are his childrens.

However, the F01, for me, is very different. Every model since the e65 was an evolution of it. The F01 is a new start, not an evolution. The e60 is, among others, the evolution.

I don't understand why you're saying e65 and F01 are so close. Like I said, for me, it's obvious that the e65 started an era where details are more important than proportions. Flame Surfacing later became the main point of the car, and overdesign, overcomplex surfaces took the lead. The e65 was rejected because it did not had clear FS, but had dreadful proportions. Proportions, greenhouse were not the focus. However the e65 had only a preview of Flame Surfacing, what made it not very happy designwise. Later Beemer had better proportions, and FS, so they were liked. But the greenhouse itself is not sleek or elegant, what makes them interesting is this specific surface treatment.

The F01 starts an era where proportions, greenhouse are the point again. The lines are clean, simple, far from overdesigned. FS is not the point anymore, it is here only to enhance the proportions of the car.

Now you're telling me I'm wrong, Rob. It may be, I'm far from having your design expertise. But then, could you explain it to me?

Oh my God Amaury, have you actually read anything I've said?

IMO the Z4 and E60 look quite different from the E65 and 6-series. They both have FS while the two other's don't.

in the end of july i'm in munich @ bmw welt - how high is the chance to see it there ?

That is right ....people keep referring to FS on the E65 --- where the heck is it

That is exactly right Amaury ....you have said nothing here that conflicts with what I have been saying.


The design language that is influencing and informing BMW is very vast and open to many interpretations within the same essential idiom.

Far from being overly complex, the E65 was in essence quite a clean design.

Perhaps we should also acknowlege the Audi TT -- for it was the car design that sought a purely Modern vocabulary and set the tone for Audi design -- it was to Audi what the E65 is to BMW.



The most notable aspect of the E65 is the 'additive' approach it took to the different elements that make up a modern automobile -- it is deliberately heterogeneous -- like it is made up of distinctively separate elements rather than a typical homogeneous design ......Mercedes-Benz took a similar approach with the W221 S class.

The BMW E32 first showed the sparks of this approach back in 1987 with what was to become one of BMW's most instantly recognized styling attributes: The linear incongruity of the rear lights.



We know that BMW has 'immersed' itself in high design from around the world: the most expressive architecture, products, and conceptual design have all fed the imaginations and intentions of BMW designers.

Soon after the E65 debuted, we started to notice BMW increasingly make the association with contemporary architecture and Modern art in its advertising and press-releases.






















I don't think the E65 and F01 are so close -- but I believe the E65 represents the "Big Bang" of BMW's new design universe.

Well I did study art ...and I am very interested and familar with what is happening in contempoary design, but I would never be so bold as to refer to myself as an expert ....but I am most appreciative that you should compliment me on that

You are right, The F01 has appeared to resolve much of the "awkwardness" the E65 is so often accused of having. I think this is mostly on account of the F01's far more homogeneous form -- this is the main difference here. The E65 is 'additive' (agglomerative) like the original Audi TT -- the FO1 has a far more integrated 'organic' form.

Looks like my view is already recalibrated to the new big kidney grille design.

When looking at the current E65 or E60, those grilles suddenly appear too small for my eye...