German Car Zone

Thanks EnI.

We all remember the initial reviews of the E92 M3, the horrid venting of spleen... and what happened a couple of weeks down the line?

Regarding the drive; no, it will never drive like a typical BMW, but it will drive in a very untypical MPV manner. That can only be a good thing.

I found with the US journalists is that they hated this car before they entered The press base, other journalists were more open to wait and see how it drives as evident in the other test drive posts.
Before coming to their conclusions. But you cannot come to a test drive with your primary aim to despise the car because you are not objective.

But as Eni mentioned we are a global car company aimed at providing global solutions. In order for Americans to embrace Euro concepts such as the 1er hatchback and the GT series then they have to conform. It's all well to read a few forum comments regarding four cylinders , diesels and hatchbacks but they do not show the demand as the hate and fail posts outnumber these and the media join in. BMW cannot justify the costs to federalize these cars if they are going to sell only a handful.

The 1-series would be perfect for the US market, they just dont understand it, yet. But soone enough, there will be legislation demanding a cut in consumption (combined with a 100% rise of the price for gas) and that is when this type of car will be very much sought after.

This is of course just me speculation, but I do not think I'm that far off...

Scott, Eni Autocar also mentioned the gearbox being brilliant and I can understand BMW not going fulltime into DCT and opting for auto trannies rather, however i heard a rumour of BMW developing a new type of gearbox. Any truth to this?

What nonsense. Why on earth would U.S. customers think about a product from any other perspective other than how it fits into the U.S. market? Americans are ignorant because they only crave 3,5,6,7,X5,Z4 BMWs? It is just this type of thinking that makes people not want a BMW.

The 1-Series is not only ugly, but its over priced. The savings vs the 3-Series is precious little in most cases. The X6 is pricey and takes away the main reason most people buy an SUV, cargo room. No wonder it doesn't sell. BMW should be trying to cater to the U.S. market with a product that upholds the BMW tradition while meeting the needs and tastes of U.S. buyers, not forcing some ill-suited, over-marketed, answer to a question no one asked, at times goofy/ugly looking product down their throats.

Such arrogance.

Between the X3, X5, X6 and 5 Touring there really isn't much of a "need" for this 5GT. At least not any beyond the marketing skunkworks at BMW.

Are Europeans "ignorant" because they don't see the point of U.S. pickups, big V8 pony cars, and super size SUVs? No of course not. Those productions just don't fit their needs.


M

Sure customers think only about their needs. But the problem are the journalists - who should have be more open-minded, seeing a broader picture.

You don't see many Euro customers (eg. via forums) bitching about such types of vehicles ... despite being sold in Europe, although in small numbers. Some people need / want them. It's a niche in Europe, and respected as such. The problem is when such product is marketed in a way wanting to cater the mass taste (which can not be done in all the markets).

While eg. US press is usually very narrow-minded - not even understanding the niche products. Like everything should cater to the mass, and sell in 5 digit numbers per month.

I remember US press bitching about MINI - when it was introduced to US market. And even many customers were on that wagon. Too small for US, too expensive for its size, small size = not safety etc

And many other similar cases ... Very narrow-minded reactions.


******

Global companies offering global products don't care JUST & ONLY about a certain market, but about all global markets they are present in ... Sure there is some missed opportunity to sell more - if the product would be more specific-market oriented, but in such case sales in other markets could hurt.

Therefore some US brands (or Japanese luxury brands as well) have problem being successful worldwide since their products do not fit well to global average. Same case with eg. some Euro brands - which can't succeed in US & Asia due not having proper products (globally accepted products) in portfolio.

So, either a company offers globally attractive products, or offer specific products to specific markets (based on geographic or demographic factors).

It's all about understanding (the marketing) ...

And calling particular (globally distributed) product "a BS" just because it's just a (perhaps even marginal) niche in your domestic market (but successful elsewhere) ... sorry , yes, that's ignorant. Knowing nothing about marketing- about the brief & purpose behind the product, and the demographics it targets.

Have you ever seen me eg. calling US V8 muscle cars stupid? Or Hammer, or Ford pick-ups, GMC SUVs / vans, or any of Infiniti or Lexus product? No. I only had comments when a certain brand wanted to repeat a mass success from US market in other markets as well - with a product specific for US market. Since that's a no go usually - therefore such products have ended up being a niche products out of US market.

I feel sorry for some (not only US ones ... there are idiots elsewhere as well) journalists since there will be more & more niche (cross-over) models in the future ... So, a lot of products they will not understand ... And I can imagine all the whining where the car industry is steering with such BS products ... Which is very ironic - since automotive journalists should be the ones with best insight in the industry - understanding it, and understanding the future trends etc. Yet today it seems those "journalists" are nothing but ego-driven car bimbos (most of them, not all of them! There still are some very good journalists who know about the stuff they write about. But they are rare, and becoming even rarer.)

All going Paris way ... "Paris , are you afraid of swine flue?" "No, I have nothing to worry about. I don't eat pork." Shallow, ignorant, stupid, fake-flashy (form over content).

And again: if you don't need it or understand it - that DOES NOT automatically men the product is stupid & redundant. Since there are some people out there who want such exactly such a product.

And different people see different things being stupid & redundant: eg. I have allergy on supercars.

Who is "bitching" about the 5GT? All I (and others) are doing is wondering out loud or questioning the purpose of such a vehicle. Simple as that. Period.

You most certainly do see European journalist "bitching" about U.S. home grown products and questioning the need for them. I can't believe you're going to say that they don't.

I don't read European forums so really......matterless.

The U.S. is full of niche products that sell well and that are coveted by their buyers, and they don't sell in the 5K range per month


And for BMW to launch a product with little or no market relevance in a particular market is ignorant as hell also. When and if a product flops, who is it that knows nothing about "marketing- about the brief & purpose behind the product, and the demographics it targets" then? BMW or the buyer? Of course the buyer is clueless because you're inherent bias won't allow you admit BMW might be capable making a mistake.

Is the X6 not selling well here because of American ignorance or because the product is ill-suited to American tastes and expectations? An expensive SUV that focuses on driving pleasure, but has a tight back seat and can't haul much like other similar SUVs? Did BMW just make an ignorant mistake or are Americans just too dumb to spend 60-95K on a SUV which can't haul much and performs best at speeds and doing manuvers that most Americans can't do legally?


And the European press isn't? Due you have got to be joking. They constantly derided and question the mere being of certain American products. They think everything has to prove its metal on a track and so on, that is just as narrow minded as any American journalists are.


M

That is because they are journalists - paid to express their personal view on things they do not understand.

We have the exact same problem with European journalists, most of the time they are, however, not questioning the concept of American vehicles (as we do not get the models here that would have triggered such reactions) but rather the Pavlovian conditioned statements of poor handling, silly interior quality and engines with the refinement of a stone mill...

Do you never sleep, or what? Always present ...



As said many times: and again ... the purpose has been explaind. If you (or even a majority) don't need such a car that does not mean it has no purpose in general. Today people like cross-over cars that are jacks-of-all-trade-masters-of-none. And usually such cars are niche. Does a supercar have a purpose to the mass market / majority of customers? No. But it has to some. It's a niche. What's the point questioning the purpose of a niche, of you're not a part of it? Absolutely none.




Time will tell. BMW see no big market for 5er GT in US. But they will still offer the car there. Just like eg. they did with 5er Touring. They have nothing to lose. It will be there - for the few who need it & will buy it. No mass market ambitions though - eg. like MB ones with R-class in US market.

So, would it be better not inviting US press to the first drives?



X6 sells less in US since BMW US sales in general suffers a lot. Sales ratio X5 vs X6 is according to plans. While in other markets this ratio exceeds plans: X& being much closer to X5 sales numbers than expected. In some small markets X6 even outsells X5!!!! Btw, beside ME the US market offers lowest prices for X6. Anywhere else the car is even more expensive.

And eg. 6er sells even less ... Does that mean it's a flop? No, since a niche product - a large GT coupe / cabrio with limited market potential. And so it is the X6. It's not a mass product like X5. Never will be. So don't expect the car will sell in X5 numbers ... and calling it a flop when seeing it's not reaching X5 sales numbers at all. Since that has never been the aim.

Why eg. R-class is considered to be a flop? Due to wrong marketing - since MB advertise it as "an alternative to SUV", and expecting big sales numbers, wanting the car to be mainstream mass product like eg. ML. And that has never happened. Flop = huge margin between expectations and reality. Not the sales numbers per se. If you launch a car (and generating profits) as a niche product - selling it in small numbers, that shouldn't be considered as flop. Unless a person is completely ignorant, knowing nothing about marketing.

It is. But not in marketing kind of way. The narrow-minded attitude more derives from patriotism: favoring their own domestic brands. eg. Germans favoring German brands over any other, Brits favoring British brands, Italian Italian brands, French the French brands etc.

Yet still automotive press in average has become a joke ... Globally. Completely tabloid-like. Following the trend in the media world. Sensational yellow-press is selling well ... And the content & form has to cater the intelligence & mindset of the readers. It's certainly not the NYT audience - like.

Today automotive forums & blogs & news portals offer much more insight than average automotive magazine.

Some automotive "journalists" & media act laike Gods of Automotive world - pretending they know everything, and pretend to being entitled to say anything (that being a praise or criticism) ... although they usually do that with no or too little info / insight ... and therefore they often make fools of themselves. And their readers do it even more - believing in everything they read in such magazines / papers etc.

I was a part of automotive marketing machine once (for a short period), and I know how difficult is to present info to media - since today not many journalists understand the complexity of marketing (eg. why some product is offered, how it is offered, how it is priced, to whom it is offered, how it is communicated etc). They usually go "I don't understand it ... I don't understand it. It doesn't make sense to me." Usually showing their complete lack of empathy - not understanding what someone else wants / needs. Since they usually only use rationality as a base for explanation. But today purchasing process is not only based on customer's rationality, but it's more based on emotional (irrational) base as well - even more so in premium / luxury segments. And not many people understand emotional base of other people. Therefore eg. journalists do not understand some products ... Since today products are not only targeting the rational part of consumer's mental process, but also (sometimes even mostly) his / her emotional part.

And therefore it's hard to judge some products today ... since many people can only understand & judge the rational character of the product, but not necessary the emotional part (if you're not the targeted demographics). In some cases the marketing for a particular product is so specific & precise, it's hard for the general public to understand it. In such case only targeted demographics will be able to do it.

So, when I read the articles in papers saying "Product A is ugly / not sexy / visually challenging" or "It has no purpose. / It's redundant. / Hard to understand" - it only shows the stupidity of the writer. Unless he / she clearly specifies those are his / her PERSONAL & SUBJECTIVE feelings & views only! But even in this case ... articles should be writen for audience, for the writer himself ... who T. F. wants to read about personal feelings of the author??? It's not his blog / diary. Yet today many articles are so ego-driven it hurts.