Hey, picking the GS430's 4.3L V8 for comment is like (a few months ago) picking on MB's old 5.0L 225kW V8 (and maybe 460Nm or whatever) and holding it up as the paragon of German engineering - it ain't necessarily so. The GS300's 3.0 V6 is a much better example, compared to its cohort; with 183kW and 310Nm. Any N/A engine that can make more than 100Nm/litre is a decent engine, IMO. I don't really care that much for power figures.

Um, does Subaru count as independant? A small portion of shares are owned by Toyota. Toyota is the best performing car maker at the moment. Honda is doing well enough.

Hey, if you want to compare the US-market 3.0L "325i" with the IS250, why stop there? Would someone cry foul if they went and compared it to the IS350, with 225kW/306hp? Er, and don't worry, some people value things other than track performance in a car. It's not the be-all and end-all of the superiority of a car, not even amongst the people on this forum.

I'm sure that, even in the US, many owners of Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys would tell you that their cars really, really do sell. If you mean Europe, I wouldn't really know, but Camrys do well over here, too. The medium car sector is owned by Japan - Mazda 6, Liberty/Legacy and Accord Euro.

So, am I a big fan of Japanese cars? Not really. I just hate to hear injustice poured out on them.

I like German cars because of a certain thoroughness to their design and their consideration for the user's aesthetic in a way that Japanese cars don't quite. I often find that Japanese cars are built with ruthless efficiency, but you miss out on some small features like air conditioning air flow adjustment for each vent, illuminated door courtesy lights (vs. reflectors, though the Golf V disappointed me in that regard), and air vents for the rear passengers in the back of the centre console/tunnel. Their interior design is also generally well considered, with a certain pride in the overall design, but not necessarily more ergonomically sound.

It's those little things, not performance as such, that make German cars for car enthusiasts, IMO.