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EnI   EnI is offline
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFREAK
Turbo is back and here to stay? Really? I highly doubt it. Just because BMW is introducing a turbo in one of their mainstream cars does not mean that turbo will be seen in the BMW line up from now on. For all we know they may go back and forth between forced induction and NA.
It's no secret BMW are developing turbo engines in every segment. I6 turbo is only the first one. I4 turbo is coming in 2007, V8 turbo in 2008, V12 turbo also in development (2010?). There will be at least one turbo in each segment.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me
dont forget there was a 7er in the 80s with a turbo engine.
Which one? It certainly wasn't mainstream - a once off limited edition perhaps? Who cares, the facts are that BMW and their vociferous zealot supporters went to massive lengths to point out the superiority of naturally aspirated engines for decades now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me
2002 isnt the only turbo engine.
According to established opinion, it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me
Also they were competing in Formula 1 with turbo engines in the 80's.
Every engine maker and his dog in those years was utilising the 1500 cc turbo engine configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me
BMW didnt get a bright idea just like that.
Precisely. Others got it before them.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EniLab
It's no secret BMW are developing turbo engines in every segment. I6 turbo is only the first one. I4 turbo is coming in 2007, V8 turbo in 2008, V12 turbo also in development (2010?). There will be at least one turbo in each segment.

Are you sure? What about the M division? M has always been high revving, can this last forever? You may be right, but I think eventually BMW may transition back into NA. Will it get to the point where BMW cannot make M cars NA and begin to make them turbo charged?

It is so funny to think that Audi was a big turbo fan, yet their current S4 became the first S4 to be NA and the RS4 followed. This does not mean that turbo is the best choice, so BMW in using it may just be a wise decision from the board or the marketting group knowing it will attract many enthusiastic buyers and tuners.

Martinbo you are right. Other manufacturers have had time to distinguish themselves using turbos, while BMW has not. This does not mean, like you said, that they have not advanced turbo techonlogy in any way or form, they have just begun to utilize it in this ever demanding market.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinbo
Which one? It certainly wasn't mainstream - a once off limited edition perhaps? Who cares, the facts are that BMW and their vociferous zealot supporters went to massive lengths to point out the superiority of naturally aspirated engines for decades now.



According to established opinion, it is.



Every engine maker and his dog in those years was utilising the 1500 cc turbo engine configuration.



Precisely. Others got it before them.

lol your making it sound like Im saying BMw invented turbo
All Im saying, turbo isnt something new to them. Its just that now BMW has better knowledge and they also know how to build the car without turbolag, they simply have the knowledge to make turbo engines effective. The Turbo tecknology are so much better these days than on the 70 or the 80's.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFREAK
re you sure? What about the M division? M has always been high revving, can this last forever? You may be right, but I think eventually BMW may transition back into NA. Will it get to the point where BMW cannot make M cars NA and begin to make them turbo charged?
I'm positive. M? They are sticking with NA engines. For now. Although there were ideas to put a turbo in M2 (which is now still in "business evaluation phase" - de facto frozen project right now).

BMW will still offer NA engines, but turbos also - as an addition. Think that basis I4, I6, V8, V12 etc will be NA, while top-end engines will be turbos. So e.g. (pure fictional example!) no more 4.0L & 4.8L V8, but 4.5L NA & 4.5L turbo.

BMW turbos are here to replace NA engines with bigger displacement in each segment - since they are lighter, more economical, yet as smooths as NA engines.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EniLab
I'm positive. M? They are sticking with NA engines. For now. Although there were ideas to put a turbo in M2 (which is now still in "business evaluation phase" - de facto frozen project right now).

BMW will still offer NA engines, but turbos also - as an addition. Think that basis I4, I6, V8, V12 etc will be NA, while top-end engines will be turbos. So e.g. (pure fictional example!) no more 4.0L & 4.8L V8, but 4.5L NA & 4.5L turbo.

BMW turbos are here to replace NA engines with bigger displacement in each segment - since they are lighter, more economical, yet as smooths as NA engines.

Oh I had actually thought about it the other way around. I thought that the turbos in each segment were to replace the lower division engines, while the bigger displacements would stay. However, accoridng to you it is the other way around. So the upper level cars in each segment will have the turbo. I see. So BMW doesn't want to work with bigger displacement or cylinder, just cut down on cost and make them just as powerful or more powerful as its predecessors?

But, wouldn't it be wise for BMW to do it to the M cars and leave the other NA? I mean, wouldn't they prefer to do that so that they can get the mos power out? Man, its a shame to think that M may one day be producing turbo cars. Funny, I always thought they would stick the NA engine type, while the others would use forced induction. It seems with MB's new V8 and Audi with NA V8's, the industry is changing. Now BMW is going to become the turbo god and Audi and MB NA gods? hmmmmm
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:44 PM

well i told you all before.. i knew that this NA strategy wouldnt hold forever..
and im glad.. cause i love Kompressor Turbo NA..who cares.. as long as the car hauls ass
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:46 PM

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Originally Posted by The Artist
well i told you all before.. i knew that this NA strategy wouldnt hold forever..
and im glad.. cause i love Kompressor Turbo NA..who cares.. as long as the car hauls ass

NO. I don't think it follows their philosophy and if a car manufacturer wants to continue to be looked as a specfic thing (the ultimate driving machine) they cannot just change their philosophy. I am assuming that BMW has incorporated some sort of technology into this turbo so that they can distinguish themselves in the arena of consumers.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:46 PM

Turbos are the future of petrol engines. As well are the Dual Clutch Transmissions.

Why? Because they are more economical (than engines with big displacement & regular automatic gearbox) - reducing the fuel consumption.

And that's the BMW's goal: Effecient Dynamics!

The lightweight tech is also a part of this strategy.
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Re: BMW 335i; a Audi S4 opponent? - 08-16-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFREAK
NO. I don't think it follows their philosophy and if a car manufacturer wants to continue to be looked as a specfic thing (the ultimate driving machine) they cannot just change their philosophy. I am assuming that BMW has incorporated some sort of technology into this turbo so that they can distinguish themselves in the arena of consumers.
yep agree with the philosophy thing..but it seems like they changed it now..
and i dont see how their turbos are so much diffrent from other turbos..sure there might be some technicall diffrences but nothing revolutionary..or anything a driver could detect by driving the car.. thats atleast what i belive..
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