German Car Zone

Bottomline, BMW has lost it.

Merc will have the Gullwing supercar and audi will have other mid-engined supercars : R4 and Murcielago-successor-based R10. While BMW has cancelled its new z8.

I dont support these models either but BMW has hardly lost it becuase they arent making sportscars.

They are making crossovers and trucks pretty much like Chrysler

BMW should not mainly focus on cars in the small(ish) segment, e.g. Isetta, MINI, 1-series and 3-series, because of some romantic or idealistic reason. There are plenty of other good reasons.

1. It is what BMW does best in the world today and yesterday.

2. The trend for all manufacturers is/will no doubt be towards smaller lighter cars with preserved core brand characteristics. This is very favourable to BMW as sportiness in many ways is a result of a car being small and light. It will be much harder for the other German premium brands to preserve core brand characteristics. It is hard to make things a luxurious and comfortable as before, just as it is a great disadvantage to have to incorporate 4WD and utility when when downsizing. Mercedes and Audi faces even harder challenges.

The reasons why downsizing will be a reality are obvious - we need more fuel efficient cars because neither customers economy nor the environment can handle large and expensive cars to the same extent today as they did in 2007. I guess the environment had had it long before that but what was needed was some incentive from the now more conscious market.

BMW have released two models that are plain wrong by these standards. The X6 was released just in time. Half a year later would have been no good at all. It still gets a fair bit of bad press for being a symbol of the filthy and polluting, but I guess that is the end of that. It was perfect timing to cancel the other GT. The other model I'm thinking of is the 5 GT, it is not as bad as the Concept GT or the X6, but I'm pretty sure this is the last of the "to large" models for a long time.

What I think should be done now is to focus on the new Isetta (that will no doubt be a huge hit), Z2 (light, electric, mass produced) sharing a lot with the next generation MINI E. Very sporty versions of the 1-series and 3-series incorporating lightweight technology and some sort of full/light hybrid drive (KERS?) and being badged as the CSL of this century.

Some of the above will happen. Some will not. However, this is the path I think BMW must take. Remember, to focus on these areas does not preclude models like the 5-series (very important car) or the 7-series (important for marketing reasons and for introcducing/testing new technology).

And still they remain to be the most succesful premium brand, without having super cars as attention whores!
Imagine what will happen if they go sporty again

Poor Mercedes, they try so desperataly. Audi even more so.

^Yes imagine is the key word..lol

Quote:

Bottomline, BMW has lost it. Merc will have the Gullwing supercar and audi will have other mid-engined supercars : R4 and Murcielago-successor-based R10. While BMW has cancelled its new z8.

Given the premise of the Gullwing supercar but Audi?
It is looking unlikely we will see such cars as Porsche always state that there is only Porsche in the Premium Sports car segment and they intend to cover all the bases where that leaves Audi , Lamborghini etc is at anyones guess, As they are in a more procarious position. Porsche also state that there is no need for Bugatti.

Mercedes are now better placed after the shareholder revolt (similar to BMW and Rover) over Chrysler. Had Mercedes still maintained Chrysler now they would be sinking with them.

So BMW may not have a line up of supercars but at least BMW have their independence and the ability to create and market cars which will not overlap or intrude .
As it has been said many times ago today is not the era for the supercar , the PS race and the desire to have the ultimate vanity project is well and truly over , today it is all about environmental responsibility and these can be incorporated into supercars also. Which is why although missing and late from the game BMW will one day come up with something that will be highly relevant to todays requirements. BMW can do ultimate vanity projects but choose not to because you get lost in the crowd. BMW do not currently see the need as the BMW philosophy is evident in every BMW model from the 118d to the top of the line M6 Cabrio.

In the years of the growth of the BMW brand , BMW have moved from just a normal German sports car company . The BMW brand image is so much interpretated by our competitors and other manufacturers that BMW were seeing their originality fade away. BMW see themselves as a company that specialises in mobility solutions and that incorporates innovation , new automotive solutions and creativity.

The 3er GT is an example of something to get excited about as is the 5er GT - People will be looking for more from their cars and these cars offer greater flexibility and supreme comfort and luxury.
Without compromise of the BMW philosophy.
How knows if the GT er is successful and BMW have tapped a future trend we might see interpretations from Mercedes-Benz and Audi aimed at a much older demographic.

That's the brand repositioning I was talking about: adding new dimensions to Sheer Driving Pleasure.


In the modern history of BMW ...

First there were mainly 4dr sedans & 2dr sedans (aka coupes): 3er, 5er, 7er. And tourings, shooting brakes & cabrios. Then there was a supercar (M1), and a roadter (Z1).

And then the expansion began: large coupe 8er (followed by years later by 6er), hatch 3er (replaced later by 1er hatch), mid-size roadster Z3 (replaced later by Z4), big SUV X5, large roadster Z8, mid-size SUV X3, hatch 1er (as said: replacing 3er hatch), small cabrio & coupe 1er, big coupe 6er (replacing 8er kind a) + cabrio, X6 large SAC, X1 small SAV, 5er GT - large crossover etc.

BMW are repositioning slightly ... moving away from traditional sports cars & shapes - but still retaining the sporty spirit (involvement in F1, great M cars, great core lines & niche cars - driving great, still the benchmark).

Sport has become too narrow - c'mon even Porsche needed an SUV, and now a sedan: first time in Porsche's history. And be sure: without VAG Porsche would be forced to offer even more non-porsche cars: like eg. small roadsters, small front-engined coupes etc And even MB started to offer small vanish hatch (A-class), mini-van (B-class), and a van (R-class), and various sizes of SUVs etc. And prior also the wagons - which at least in Europe was widely used as hearses & medical cars. Not very MBish at all: the company which was all about sedans, coupes, cabrios & roadsters.

Being a premium brand of a specific value / character, and an independent company - and offering cars with very specific character only: it's impossible. At least today.

It's like Coca-Cola - who now also produces various versions of colas, and othere beverages whichs has nothing to do with cola at all.

Or McDonalds who offers vegi meals, and salads, and coffe etc ... not very McDish at all ...

Every company - if it's independent - has to grow: start to expanding the product lines.

Unfortunately the BMW experiment with Rover failed - but if had survived BMW cars would have been more hard core, while Rover cars would have covered the mainstream.

Now we have BMWs of every shape & size.


Audi is a big danger: being able to stay more focused - not being forced to enter some niches (since PAH has various brands to choose for to fill the niches) - since the economy of scales from the VAG itself.

IMO BMW, Daimler & Opel should start to cooperate on some levels ASAP - eg. co-developing & producing / purchasing electronic car network, A/C units, other peripherals, small engines & perhaps platforms, hybrid & electric drives etc. While the core stuff still stays independent & specific. That would bring some economy of scales, while still staying independent.

Otherwise PAH & its brands will start to completely dominate.

Wow,dude stop for a sec and take a breath..

Interesting comments from the BMW proponents.

Common themes emerge when discussion on the relevance and justifiability of BMW's pursuit of certain dubiously useful and viable model ranges commences. One of the more prevalent is the assertion on BMW's part regarding vanity projects. Tell me please, how is an Audi R8 more of a vanity project than an X6? If anything, the Audi is the lesser in terms of vanity: it simply delivers in line with its maker's aspirations and emerges as the arguably the best sports car on the market for the money. The Audi R8's chief rival? The omnipresent and massively successful Porsche 911. Job well done Audi. As for the X6? Well, it's the epitome of a vanity project; let's go make a car that has no real rivals nor brings any practical purpose to consumers other than to stroke their egotistical need for "individuality". This, to my mind, is quintessentially vain.

To state that BMW have no pursuit of models or ranges that overlap is bending the truth. The very idea behind crossover vehicles is to bring a measure of overlap - justifiably or not - to a model range. The mooted GT range of future BMWs is a classic example. The 3er and 5er GT's will sit alongside traditional Touring models. That's odd, Grand Tourer with a slopey arse and plain Touring with a chopped off bum. This, and a driver's different seating position more suited to people with varicose, are the only differentiators! Oh no - there's no "intrusion or overlap" here...?

I, for one, have no perception whatsoever that BMW have abandoned their performance car roots or the principles behind what makes a great sporting BMW. So I have none of the angst that BMW no longer are pursuing cars in the Sheer Driving Pleasure idiom. Cars like the current E9x M3, E89 Z4 and even the pugnacious 135i are testamony to BMW's sporting spirit. BMW have thus no reason to placate BMW fans seeking assurances around BMW's perceived abandonment of core values. However this does not mean that BMW are entirely vindicated for offering a car with no purpose other than to be an alternative (read competition) to established models.

For me, this strategy represents an unnecessary diversion: a focus robber. Without the vital resources being diverted into BMW's own "vanity" projects - how much better and more technologically advanced could the established variants have been? It's a very pertinent question in these troubled times...

On another note, regarding the Bugatti badge and its future purpose / relevance... if VW AG never use the Bugatti badge again then, with the Veyron, it has more than served its purpose. Bugatti is a very special, evocative brand, untarnished by the trappings of previously dubious associations with less than admirable automotive names. And now, with the resolutely epic Veyron, VW has pushed the gravitas of the Bugatti brand well beyond anything else in the industry. The Bugatti moniker served a vital purpose: to enable VW to build the most definitive, luxurious and unmatchable supercar possible without having to slap a VW or Audi badge on it. The Veyron, thankfully, was spared this handicap. As such, the Bugatti reputation will last well beyond the economic shelf life of the Veyron, remaining in a state of hiatus until the appropriate time comes round again.